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John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Now, Who, if Anyone, is to Blame?
« Reply #50 on: June 17, 2019, 12:00:36 PM »
I caught myself looking up from my phone yelling at people to get off their phones.

Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Now, Who, if Anyone, is to Blame?
« Reply #51 on: June 17, 2019, 12:02:21 PM »
It was a great tournament, I don't see any problems. 


I think 4 days of marine layer threw a real curve ball into things, but I don't know how you can complain with B. Koepka and J. Rose being around the lead all weekend, and a gutty performance from Woodland securing the title.


He made all the shots he needed, t'was some brilliant stuff including Saturday's round as well.






What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Now, Who, if Anyone, is to Blame?
« Reply #52 on: June 17, 2019, 12:45:00 PM »

I was shocked Koepka didn't pull Driver out on 18 tee and hit 3-wood instead, as he could have left himself with a much shorter shot and stoppable shot to the green. Granted, hitting driver presents a greater risk/reward component, but when you're two shots or even a shot down, who cares!? It's the U.S. F#^'ng Open, for crying out loud!! As it was, he overcooked his 3-driving iron, made a poor chip from off the green, missed his birdie putt and the rest is history. Had he at least gotten a birdie to reduce the lead to one it may have changed the way Woodland played his second shot on 17 green. It surely would have made him less comfortable over it.


I wasn't shocked.  He will only play a fade with his driver, and the 18th doesn't set up for a fade . . . he did not drive it well there earlier in the tournament.  But he likes to hit a little draw with the 3-wood, and his little draw goes a long way.  When I saw him pull 3-wood I knew he was going for it.  Too bad he didn't get it up and down for birdie, but even the one-shot lead for Woodland would have been enough, after that great chip on 17 he was not going to blow it.

Peter Pallotta

Re: Now, Who, if Anyone, is to Blame?
« Reply #53 on: June 17, 2019, 12:52:24 PM »
An aside:
if only Martians judged golf course architecture, and only from outer space with pirated blimp and shot tracer images, Pebble Beach would surely strike their advanced (but cone shaped) brains as the gold standard.
Which is to say: the setting and scenery (and even plot) were just about perfect; the only thing missing (for me) was that Bond didn't have a Dr. No to call him 'a stupid policeman'. DJ would've been the best at it -- Shane vs Jack Wilson.
- So you're Jack Wilson.
What's that mean to you, Shane?
- I've heard about you.
What have you heard, Shane?
- I've heard that you're a lowdown Yankee liar.
(beat)
Prove it.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Now, Who, if Anyone, is to Blame?
« Reply #54 on: June 17, 2019, 12:57:29 PM »
I have to wonder...

If Tiger was in the pack chasing too, would Gary have folded?  I know Brooks has been hot in majors, but a Tiger prowl may have been what put it over the top....

Pat Burke

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Now, Who, if Anyone, is to Blame?
« Reply #55 on: June 17, 2019, 01:44:18 PM »
Woodland answered the earlier pushes by everyone.
He came out on the must score holes and answered the push by
Oosty, Koepka, Xander and Rose by making his own birdies.
His past record with the lead had everyone pushing hard and he pushed back.
He then held on and recovered every time he had to...it was an impressive performance IMO.
He got lucky on 14.  Seems all winners get that one important break.
And the pitch on 17 was mind boggling.  It was also telling that he had the wedge out quickly.  He was decisive in a tough moment, and executed.


The marine layer probably had more impact on the “feeling” of the event.  Some clear skies would have improved the visuals and firmed the greens that little bit more they needed IMO. 


Koepka is pretty amazing tbh
« Last Edit: June 17, 2019, 02:36:53 PM by Pat Burke »

Jim Hoak

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Now, Who, if Anyone, is to Blame?
« Reply #56 on: June 17, 2019, 02:00:33 PM »
Sounds like some people searching for something to complain about.  I thought it was a great tournament, thoroughly entertaining, and a great departure from the weekly snooze-festivals.  I loved it!

Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Now, Who, if Anyone, is to Blame?
« Reply #57 on: June 17, 2019, 02:04:43 PM »
For me, coming into this season, Woodland hadn't done much to distinguish himself from all of the other bomb and gougers cashing checks on tour.  But his performance with Amy Bockerstette in Phoenix this year put him on my radar as someone to root for, even if he was in that position as defending champ and not because of some greater commitment to the cause.  But she pretty clearly had a big impact on him.  I have a 16 month old with Down Syndrome, and one of the first things I did after we got our diagnosis was searching the web for whether I'd ever be able to play golf with him.  Her story and others like it calmed a lot of pretty serious nerves for me.  Good on Gary.


Gary's friendship with Amy remains an inspiring story. He even FaceTimed with her after the win:

https://twitter.com/USGA_PR/status/1140453308131237888
https://www.today.com/news/gary-woodland-had-sweet-moment-special-olympics-golfer-t156388
https://www.pgatour.com/news/2019/06/16/amy-bockerstette-helps-gary-woodland-home-us-open-pebble-beach.html



"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Buck Wolter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Now, Who, if Anyone, is to Blame?
« Reply #58 on: June 17, 2019, 02:41:59 PM »

My wife, who kept her back to the tv, became so bothered by what seemed to be the same guy yelling over each shot that she asked me to leave the room. We compromised, she left. It would be as simple as not showing streakers to edit out the yelling with high speed computers and such. Another thing that specifically bothered me. I believe I could hear the drone flying around in the background of some shots. And while we are at it, I wish a toe fungus upon the yacht guy that I was forced to watch for four days straight.


According to The Fried Egg who was there it was the blimp you heard --flying low over the property for no reason given the drones they had. He said it was brutal as all you could hear was the blimp all day -- I bet it sounded like a green fan. He had an epic rant about it on today's Shotgun Start podcast.


I'll take Buck and Azinger over Nantz and Faldo all day. Nantz/Buck is probably a draw but Faldo is brutal (anyone remember him reciting Imagine Dragon lyrics as Patrick Reed walked up 18 the year he won?). Shane, Bacon, Faxon, Hanse are all good contributors as well throughout the week. I think Shane Bacon is going to be the next Nantz -- looks the part, good voice and timing and he made it through local qualifying this year so he knows the game at a pretty high level which is rare.


Any idea if it was Woodland or Rose that was the slow play culprit? It was embarrassing how far behind Koepka they finished.

Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience -- CS Lewis

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Now, Who, if Anyone, is to Blame?
« Reply #59 on: June 17, 2019, 02:49:12 PM »
According to The Fried Egg who was there it was the blimp you heard --flying low over the property for no reason given the drones they had. He said it was brutal as all you could hear was the blimp all day -- I bet it sounded like a green fan. He had an epic rant about it on today's Shotgun Start podcast.

I'll take Buck and Azinger over Nantz and Faldo all day. Nantz/Buck is probably a draw but Faldo is brutal (anyone remember him reciting Imagine Dragon lyrics as Patrick Reed walked up 18 the year he won?). Shane, Bacon, Faxon, Hanse are all good contributors as well throughout the week. I think Shane Bacon is going to be the next Nantz -- looks the part, good voice and timing and he made it through local qualifying this year so he knows the game at a pretty high level which is rare.

Any idea if it was Woodland or Rose that was the slow play culprit? It was embarrassing how far behind Koepka they finished.


I thought the Fox broadcast was well done (despite what Peter Kessler might think). I do wish they featured Ken Brown more, however. He is really good.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2019, 02:51:54 PM by BHoover »

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Now, Who, if Anyone, is to Blame?
« Reply #60 on: June 17, 2019, 02:54:10 PM »
Buck,


I have been blimped in public before. A beautiful walk along Manhattan Beach with my wife and out of nowhere the Goodyear Blimp itself comes overhead. If only it had crashed into Sketchers headquarters we could have bookmarked the modern sports era.

Mike Bodo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Now, Who, if Anyone, is to Blame?
« Reply #61 on: June 17, 2019, 03:08:07 PM »

I was shocked Koepka didn't pull Driver out on 18 tee and hit 3-wood instead, as he could have left himself with a much shorter shot and stoppable shot to the green. Granted, hitting driver presents a greater risk/reward component, but when you're two shots or even a shot down, who cares!? It's the U.S. F#^'ng Open, for crying out loud!! As it was, he overcooked his 3-driving iron, made a poor chip from off the green, missed his birdie putt and the rest is history. Had he at least gotten a birdie to reduce the lead to one it may have changed the way Woodland played his second shot on 17 green. It surely would have made him less comfortable over it.
All the reasons you mentioned for going with 3-wood there are sound - especially if you're ahead, tied or perhaps even one shot off the lead, if the person you're chasing still has tough holes and shots yet to play. However, in that situation you either go big or go home - especially if you're going for three straight U.S. Open titles and are two down with one to play and the leader have two to play - including the treacherous 17th. I would have started the ball at the large left side trap that runs adjacent to the fairway and prayed I hit my standard fade. Had he pured it as he did his 3-wood, he probably would of had 190 to 200 to the green, which is like a 7 or 8 iron for him. Big difference from hitting a 3-Driving Iron and hoping you hold the green with it. That said, he should have made birdie from where he was following his second shot, as it could have affected Woodland's shot on 17 green just that much more knowing he had no margin for error with that chip.


I wasn't shocked.  He will only play a fade with his driver, and the 18th doesn't set up for a fade . . . he did not drive it well there earlier in the tournament.  But he likes to hit a little draw with the 3-wood, and his little draw goes a long way.  When I saw him pull 3-wood I knew he was going for it.  Too bad he didn't get it up and down for birdie, but even the one-shot lead for Woodland would have been enough, after that great chip on 17 he was not going to blow it.
"90% of all putts left short are missed." - Yogi Berra

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Now, Who, if Anyone, is to Blame?
« Reply #62 on: June 17, 2019, 03:32:07 PM »
If we are to consider all social media my favorite aspect of the tournament was the Zac Blair twitter feed.




https://mobile.twitter.com/z_blair?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor


From Teddy on the beach to the Father's Day pic he was first class the whole way. Now if he would just ship my Slow Play headcover.


Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Now, Who, if Anyone, is to Blame?
« Reply #63 on: June 17, 2019, 03:58:45 PM »
A week ago it was whatever and "I could care less".

But this week its "I give it my all every time..."

Sounds a bit conflicted....

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Now, Who, if Anyone, is to Blame?
« Reply #64 on: June 17, 2019, 04:28:56 PM »

My wife, who kept her back to the tv, became so bothered by what seemed to be the same guy yelling over each shot that she asked me to leave the room. We compromised, she left. It would be as simple as not showing streakers to edit out the yelling with high speed computers and such. Another thing that specifically bothered me. I believe I could hear the drone flying around in the background of some shots. And while we are at it, I wish a toe fungus upon the yacht guy that I was forced to watch for four days straight.


According to The Fried Egg who was there it was the blimp you heard --flying low over the property for no reason given the drones they had. He said it was brutal as all you could hear was the blimp all day -- I bet it sounded like a green fan. He had an epic rant about it on today's Shotgun Start podcast.


I'll take Buck and Azinger over Nantz and Faldo all day. Nantz/Buck is probably a draw but Faldo is brutal (anyone remember him reciting Imagine Dragon lyrics as Patrick Reed walked up 18 the year he won?). Shane, Bacon, Faxon, Hanse are all good contributors as well throughout the week. I think Shane Bacon is going to be the next Nantz -- looks the part, good voice and timing and he made it through local qualifying this year so he knows the game at a pretty high level which is rare.


Any idea if it was Woodland or Rose that was the slow play culprit? It was embarrassing how far behind Koepka they finished.


Buck,


Thanks. I just listened to the Shotgun podcast you referenced and was won over. Andy impressed me to the point that I need to give an obligatory egg reference.


I love making buckwheat crepes with ham, Parmesan cheese, and a fried egg on top. It's my go-to breakfast.

Taylor Swift

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Now, Who, if Anyone, is to Blame?
« Reply #65 on: June 17, 2019, 05:46:14 PM »
At one point on Sunday I turned up the volume long enough to hear one of the commentators say " Pebble Beach gives you a ton of options"......LOL, seriously?   I turned the volume back to off.
No one is above the law. LOCK HIM UP!!!

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Now, Who, if Anyone, is to Blame?
« Reply #66 on: June 17, 2019, 06:09:08 PM »
Hmm...funny response.


I'd bet there were:


5 or 6 different clubs hit off the first tee though the week.
2  different clubs on 2
4 or 5 different clubs on 3
5 or 6 different clubs on 4
3 different clubs on 6
3 or 4 different on 8
1 on 9
1 on 10
2 or 3 on 11
1 or 2 on 13
2 or 3 on 14
3 or 4 on 15
3 or 4 on 16
3 or 4 on 18


I can't imagine any other major course can show that type of variety off the tee since 2010 at Pebble...

Jim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Now, Who, if Anyone, is to Blame?
« Reply #67 on: June 17, 2019, 06:19:03 PM »
I have to wonder...

If Tiger was in the pack chasing too, would Gary have folded?  I know Brooks has been hot in majors, but a Tiger prowl may have been what put it over the top....
I think that's an urban myth.  Lots of guys played spectacular golf against Tiger: if you're interested I can produce a list.   Sometimes they beat him, sometimes not, but this idea that everyone folded simply is not true. 

Also, don't forget that until this April, Tiger had never come from behind after 54 holes to win a major.  Tiger was a great front-runner, who bludgeoned the field when he led (which was often).  But having a Tiger on their tail did not frighten the pro's of the earlier generation. 

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Now, Who, if Anyone, is to Blame?
« Reply #68 on: June 17, 2019, 06:37:34 PM »
Jim,

That's a great point, thanks for the reminder.

As it was Gary could have succumbed at any point over the weekend as several of the top 10 guys in the WGR we're lurking at one point or another... Brooks, Rose, Rory, DJ, Francesco, and Xander.  Impressive stuff indeed!


P.S.  I figure Phil has two good chances left to win the Career Slam (WF-2020, TPS-2021).  Pinehurst is 2024, but by then I think it'll be too late.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2019, 06:40:49 PM by Kalen Braley »

Mike Sweeney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Now, Who, if Anyone, is to Blame?
« Reply #69 on: June 17, 2019, 07:14:56 PM »

I'd bet there were:


5 or 6 different clubs hit off the first tee though the week.
2  different clubs on 2
4 or 5 different clubs on 3
5 or 6 different clubs on 4
3 different clubs on 6
3 or 4 different on 8
1 on 9
1 on 10
2 or 3 on 11
1 or 2 on 13
2 or 3 on 14
3 or 4 on 15
3 or 4 on 16
3 or 4 on 18


I can't imagine any other major course can show that type of variety off the tee since 2010 at Pebble...


Jim,


Fantastic post. I would love to see Merion and Hoylake 2006 as a comparison.
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

Jim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Now, Who, if Anyone, is to Blame?
« Reply #70 on: June 17, 2019, 07:57:46 PM »
Hmm...funny response.


I'd bet there were:


5 or 6 different clubs hit off the first tee though the week.
2  different clubs on 2
4 or 5 different clubs on 3
5 or 6 different clubs on 4
3 different clubs on 6
3 or 4 different on 8
1 on 9
1 on 10
2 or 3 on 11
1 or 2 on 13
2 or 3 on 14
3 or 4 on 15
3 or 4 on 16
3 or 4 on 18


I can't imagine any other major course can show that type of variety off the tee since 2010 at Pebble...
On a lot of those holes, the option was mostly which club you wanted to lay up with.  Do you hit 4 iron or 5 iron off the 8th tee?  Driving iron or 4-wood off number 6?   

18 was another matter, because your tee shot determined whether you played it as a 2-shot hole or a 3-shot hole.  Similarly the tee shot on #4 had a big impact on how it played, though I think most hit irons there. 

My sense is that with a few exceptions, the course mostly dictated the shots, even if the precise clubs used to execute those shots varied from player to player.   

Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Now, Who, if Anyone, is to Blame?
« Reply #71 on: June 17, 2019, 07:59:11 PM »
Wow...lots of "get off my lawn" stuff on this topic.  Geez.


Though I agree that Buck and Azinger are not Nantz and Faldo, there was a lot to like about this US Open telecast (for me):


1.  Cudos to the USGA (and I was a USGA Committee person for 13 years) for finally managing to NOT be the story.  They let Pebble Beach take center stage, and that was a beautiful thing to see.


2.  Pebble Beach is one of if not THE most gorgeous properties for golf, and Fox showed us a ton of the property.  I for one loved the drone shots.  We got to see views that no network has ever shown of PB, and for that (focusing on the golf course and property) Fox gets high praise from me.  And for those of you who poo-poo the "Disney cement shores" of Pebble Beach, just realize that if they weren't there, many of those holes would have eroded into the sea.

3.  We got to see way more golf than any network has ever shown in a major (the Saturday and Sunday telecast began 5 full hours before the leaders teed off).  If you love golf, you had to love that part.

4.  I thought Fox did very well presenting the human interest stories along the way (from Woodland's friendship with the Special Olympian to the young lady who dives for golf balls off #18, I enjoyed all of that stuff).

5.  The view they provided for Koepka's second shot on #6 (from the tower) was breathtaking.

6.  Having Jim Nantz (who lives on the course) up to the booth for a few minutes was true class.  And Joe Buck saying directly to him, "You're the best ever", was something I've never seen in sports broadcasting before.  It was a very cool moment.
The telecast wasn't perfect and Joe Buck and Azinger are certainly not my favorite, but (a) Fox has come a very long way from their first US Open and (b) there was a ton of stuff to enjoy.



+1


Great post, Ted. Incredibly compelling, gutsy golf on a great course. Who needs announcers to enjoy that?

Rob Kiesler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Now, Who, if Anyone, is to Blame?
« Reply #72 on: June 17, 2019, 10:13:39 PM »

I'm surprised there hasn't been more positive reaction to the presence of Gil Hanse on the broadcast team. Kudos to Fox for bringing him in. I imagine his comments are somewhat elementary to the archie experts on this board. But I think it's great to bring awareness of golf architecture to the general golf TV audience. Can't ever remember either of NBC or CBS even remotely touching the subject of course architecture other than to say "Pete Dye's diabolical design" when referring to TPC Sawgrass. No disrespect to Mr. Dye intended!


I also particularly enjoyed the human interest stories, including the segments on SFB Morse(developer of Pebble Beach/Del Monte Forest), Eddie Lowery, Bobby Jones 1929 US Amateur early exit, the woman who got Pebble Beach to commit to ocean golf ball cleanup, and Woodland's friendship with the special Olympian. Normally I skip these segments but for some reason I found myself compelled to watch them, and I'm glad I did.


I think Fox coverage of USGA events is by far the best of the 3 major US networks+Golf channel. Not a huge fan of Buck/Azinger, but place them at about the same level as Nantz/Faldo, or the NBC team (outside of Azinger I can't even name the NBC team!)

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Now, Who, if Anyone, is to Blame?
« Reply #73 on: June 17, 2019, 10:44:43 PM »

All the reasons you mentioned for going with 3-wood there are sound - especially if you're ahead, tied or perhaps even one shot off the lead, if the person you're chasing still has tough holes and shots yet to play. However, in that situation you either go big or go home - especially if you're going for three straight U.S. Open titles and are two down with one to play and the leader have two to play - including the treacherous 17th. I would have started the ball at the large left side trap that runs adjacent to the fairway and prayed I hit my standard fade. Had he pured it as he did his 3-wood, he probably would of had 190 to 200 to the green, which is like a 7 or 8 iron for him. Big difference from hitting a 3-Driving Iron and hoping you hold the green with it. That said, he should have made birdie from where he was following his second shot, as it could have affected Woodland's shot on 17 green just that much more knowing he had no margin for error with that chip.



Mike:


I think I will let Brooks K. manage his own game; he seems to have been doing a reasonably good job of it lately.


You should stick to managing your own game, and when you're good enough to challenge him, go for it!   ;)   If you can make eagle on 18 at Pebble Beach -- under that pressure -- you might have a chance against him.  But I'd bet you're a bit too far back by the time you get there.


P.S.  One thing I did notice was that Brooks had to wait a while on McIlroy and Oosthuizen before he hit that second shot, and then he got up there really quickly once they were finally off the green.  He seems to be a very fast player by Tour standards.

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Now, Who, if Anyone, is to Blame?
« Reply #74 on: June 17, 2019, 10:51:49 PM »
Presenting golf whether it be tournaments or just news has a big problem.  Golf Channel probably will fade away soon and one there will be a dedicated tour channel etc.  No one is to blame but watching a golf tournament really doesn't require an announcer if it is presented properly.  The head of Golf Channel came from the magazine side of things and has tried to turn GC in that direction with his hires etc but it has diluted the talent pool and they will not pay for good TV talent.  Golf just need more action to keep the fan interest and IMHO microphones on caddies and players would be a game changer....otherwise most will nap during significant segments of even the best golf telecast...
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

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