[David_Tepper]

While U.S Open's have a reputation of encouraging dull, plodding golf, the 2nd round yesterday at Pebble was anything but that.

7 of the guys who finished in the top 10 after 2 rounds had 36 birdies and 20 bogeys between, plus 1 eagle and 5 double-bogies. That averages out to well over 8 "non-par" holes for the round for each of them! All of them shot par or better on the day.

Oosthuzen shot 70, with 7 birdies & 6 bogeys (he only parred 5 holes!)

Wise shot 71, with 5 birds, 3 boges & 1 d-b

McIlroy shot 69, with 5 birds, 1 boge & 1 d-b

Reavie shot 70, with 3 birds & 2 boges

Hadley shot 70, with 6 birds, 3 boges & 1 d-b

Kucher shot 69, with an eagle, 4 birds, 2 boges & 1 d-b

Wallace shot 68, with 6 birds & 3 boges

It was an exciting day. Credit the architecture, the set-up, the conditions and the golfers.
 

[Rob Marshall]

Couldn’t agree more. It was fun to watch last night. Every hole is a birdie hole with a double lurking. This is shaping up to be a hell of tournament at “only” 7000 yards.

[Thomas Dai]

I would be interested to see some stats-data on what clubs the players are hitting into the greens.
And on par-4’s and par-5’s what club they are using from the tee if they’re not using a Driver.
Atb

[David_Tepper]

Thomas -

My best guess is they are hitting some sort of wedge into the greens on 1, 3, 4, 6, 7, 11, 14, 15, 16 & 18. Likely 13 as well. On some of those holes (such 13, 15 & 16), they may be laying back off the tee and hitting more club into those greens.

DT

[Terry Lavin]

Couldn’t agree more. It was fun to watch last night. Every hole is a birdie hole with a double lurking. This is shaping up to be a hell of tournament at “only” 7000 yards.

Pithy and pertinent perspective.

[Peter Flory]

It's the small greens.  If you hit them, you have short putts.  If you miss them, you tend to be short sided. 

[David_Tepper]

Another example - Mickelson had 6 birdies and 4 bogeys yesterday to shoot 69.

[Kalen Braley]

Far more birdies than bogeys...no doubt the USGA is doing a poor job of "protecting par". Can't recall the last time I saw so many wedge approaches into so many holes at an open, and they have to resort to contrived mowing patterns/multiple collars around the greens to keep these guys from going even lower...

As i mentioned in the other thread, this year was the 2nd lowest cut number in the US Open in the last 25 years.....

[David_Tepper]

Kalen -

When did you become so worried about "protecting par?"

This is a short golf course being playing under very benign conditions. There has been little or no wind and the "marine layer" has kept the course on the soft side.

Big fun to watch.

DT

[Peter Pallotta]

It's the small greens.  If you hit them, you have short putts.  If you miss them, you tend to be short sided.

Which is neat to watch, and I think would be neat to play at a course near me (especially with less thick rough and/or a greater variety in surrounds).
Speaking of which: Pebble is, despite the high green fees, a very popular public course -- I can't even guess how many rounds it hosts a year. But I thought that one of the main reasons why so many of the newest and most highly regarded (and popular) public courses have very large greens is so they can accomodate/handle the wear and tear of tens of thousands of rounds per year.
Is this true?

[Rob Marshall]

Far more birdies than bogeys...no doubt the USGA is doing a poor job of "protecting par". Can't recall the last time I saw so many wedge approaches into so many holes at an open, and they have to resort to contrived mowing patterns/multiple collars around the greens to keep these guys from going even lower...

As i mentioned in the other thread, this year was the 2nd lowest cut number in the US Open in the last 25 years.....

Yeah, Bethpage was awesome to watch........this is just awful.

[Brent Carlson]

Far more birdies than bogeys...no doubt the USGA is doing a poor job of "protecting par". Can't recall the last time I saw so many wedge approaches into so many holes at an open, and they have to resort to contrived mowing patterns/multiple collars around the greens to keep these guys from going even lower...

As i mentioned in the other thread, this year was the 2nd lowest cut number in the US Open in the last 25 years.....

Mr. Braley you're correct about par and wedges.  It seems to be more of a factor of soft conditions.  There was so much rain in NorCal this year.  Combine that with persistent marine layer and lack of wind - the greens have not become crispy.  That's really the only defense at Pebble IMO.  Check out the 2010 highlights and you will see brown greens.  This championship will be lower scoring.  At the end of the day the best golfer will win.

[Kyle Harris]

Within the span of two minutes yesterday Brooks Koepka and Chesson Hadley each hit skunky approach shots (on 9 and 10, respectively) from the thick stuff that bounded across the putting surface only to be held up by one of the rings of progressive height turf.

Tighter grass around the greens wouldn't have stopped the ball so close to the putting surface and I think would have made for a trickier up and down.

[Thomas Dai]

Short, tighter cut grass can indeed lead to a whole bunch of variable up-n-down scenarios.
As can hardpan, something we don’t see much of these days.
I think there may have been a separate thread on short grass around greens herein a while ago.
Atb

[Kyle Harris]

Short, tighter cut grass can indeed lead to a whole bunch of variable up-n-down scenarios.
As can hardpan, something we don’t see much of these days.
I think there may have been a separate thread on short grass around greens herein a while ago.
Atb

I wasn't about to wade through it and I don't necessarily have a problem with the set-up per se but it's interesting that the effect of the roughs around the fairways can be mitigated by the roughs around the putting greens.

[Scott Weersing]

Will we have a surprise winner at the US Open today?


Here is a photo I took back in 1992 when Tom Kite won:


https://www.instagram.com/p/BVXDNy7F6sS/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
[/size]
[/size]Yes, it was windy and the greens were brown that day.

[Jim Nugent]

Within the span of two minutes yesterday Brooks Koepka and Chesson Hadley each hit skunky approach shots (on 9 and 10, respectively) from the thick stuff that bounded across the putting surface only to be held up by one of the rings of progressive height turf.

Tighter grass around the greens wouldn't have stopped the ball so close to the putting surface and I think would have made for a trickier up and down.

Koepka's shot was on 10.  On 9 his approach from the fairway landed on the green, maybe 6 feet from the pin, and backed up to the right.  He barely missed the birdie putt

On 10 he drove the ball 347 yards -- not into the thick stuff, but the middle of the fairway.  The problem was that his ball stopped in a divot.  He slightly pulled his approach from the divot.  But it carried lots of spin, maybe was fading just a bit, and bounced off the slope on the left of the green as well as the edge of the first cut.  Hard to tell for sure, but I think the slope and spin mostly helped him, not the first cut which is only slightly higher than the fairway.  i.e. even with one uniform cut around the greens, I suspect Koepka's ball ends up where it did.   

[David_Tepper]

 "Tighter grass around the greens wouldn't have stopped the ball so close to the putting surface and I think would have made for a trickier up and down."
"Short, tighter cut grass can indeed lead to a whole bunch of variable up-n-down scenarios."

On the other hand, the border line of rough along several of the cliffside holes (4 thru 10) has been cut down/eliminated, allowing balls to roll off the edge of the course and become lost/unplayable. 
     
 

[David_Tepper]

".....a great set-up. It's the best I've ever seen."

https://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2019/6/15/phil-ive-got-to-give-it-to-hand-it-to-the-usga-for-doing-a-great-setup-its-the-best-ive-ever-seen

[Kyle Harris]

Within the span of two minutes yesterday Brooks Koepka and Chesson Hadley each hit skunky approach shots (on 9 and 10, respectively) from the thick stuff that bounded across the putting surface only to be held up by one of the rings of progressive height turf.

Tighter grass around the greens wouldn't have stopped the ball so close to the putting surface and I think would have made for a trickier up and down.

Koepka's shot was on 10.  On 9 his approach from the fairway landed on the green, maybe 6 feet from the pin, and backed up to the right.  He barely missed the birdie putt

On 10 he drove the ball 347 yards -- not into the thick stuff, but the middle of the fairway.  The problem was that his ball stopped in a divot.  He slightly pulled his approach from the divot.  But it carried lots of spin, maybe was fading just a bit, and bounced off the slope on the left of the green as well as the edge of the first cut.  Hard to tell for sure, but I think the slope and spin mostly helped him, not the first cut which is only slightly higher than the fairway.  i.e. even with one uniform cut around the greens, I suspect Koepka's ball ends up where it did.

Jim,


I think I got both shots backwards and on the wrong holes. Koepka's shot was on 11, Hadley on 10. I remember the divot result because I have a bit of a hard-on for proving to golfers that hitting from a divot isn't that big of a deal.

[Kalen Braley]

The only point I was trying to make was it seemed there was a concerted effort by the USGA and the players to Make the US Open great again and return it to the difficult test it traditionally has been, without a over the top goofy setup like last year.

So by that measure, it has failed.  2nd lowest cut in the last 25 years.  Guys raining down birdies and eagles all over the place, albeit mixed in with a few bogies.  This feels more like a tougher than average mid-season joe-blow PGA Tour event like the Wells Fargo at Quail Hollow more than a grind it out US Open.

[David_Tepper]

Kalen -

To repeat the obvious, the USGA can't control the weather! If the sun was shining and the wind was blowing, the scores would be higher.

In the meantime, there has been plenty of exciting and spectacular golf. And plenty of bogies and doubles too. The leaderboard is of the highest quality, with 5 of the top 7 golfers having won 1 or more majors/Players.

Enjoy it.

DT

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