[Kalen Braley]

Took a quick look at Google Earth, looks like it'll have a similar elevation differential overall as AGNC, 175-200 feet. 

And given it'll be a resort course, probably shouldn't be an issue anyways as Kapalua probably has more than that.

[Peter Sayegh]

"this is a development plan, not a construction plan for the golf course."

does anyone else find the opening hole very awkward?


 

[Lou_Duran]

I don't know if you are serious or not but St. Lucia is generally a very lush island with rainforests, although that part of the island looks more desert-like.  The area where I stayed, near Soufriere grows cocoa beans and make their own chocolate.

I was being facetious about putting a deposit down on one of their planned top-of-the-market homes.  At my stage in life, less real estate is more; renting is much easier than owning.  As to the irrigation water issue, there may be none, but typically in the Caribbean it doesn't rain gently and continually.  Storing water for the dryer months is likely required, and since it gets a lot of sun, wind and temperatures in the high 80°s, I bet a two or three row system with plenty of heads will be needed to keep the bermuda in upscale resort condition.


Michael George- I am less surprised of C & Cl being involved than Mike Keiser.  The former work for a fee and though they have an excellent reputation for their design work, once they are done, they get paid and move on.  The latter risks his and his investors' capital and heretofore, he is known for evaluating risk carefully and for frugality and efficiency as much as quality.  I've visited the area near the proposed development in the last few years and the amount of necessary infrastructure development for this project to succeed is likely to very high.  Add to the likely construction inefficiencies common to that area, and yeah, I think that this is an unusual project for the developer.  All the more power to him if he can pull it off.  I am a big C & C fan and only that course would get me to come back for a second visit.

[Keith Phillips]

"this is a development plan, not a construction plan for the golf course."

does anyone else find the opening hole very awkward?

My reaction as well.  The place looks awesome and I'm sure C&C will build a treasure, but as the plan stands now I would expect that I would put 50% of my 1st tee shots into the backyard pool of the home on the inside of the first dogleg.  Not exactly a gentle handshake.

[Alex Miller]

"this is a development plan, not a construction plan for the golf course."

does anyone else find the opening hole very awkward?

My reaction as well.  The place looks awesome and I'm sure C&C will build a treasure, but as the plan stands now I would expect that I would put 50% of my 1st tee shots into the backyard pool of the home on the inside of the first dogleg.  Not exactly a gentle handshake.

If you look at photos of the site itself, it appears that the first hole jogs right up through a valley against a hillside. I think it's much clearer if you can picture it. I've tried to draw below.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

“I’m a property guy,” Mike Keiser says. And for 20 years, since he opened Bandon Dunes on a stretch of secluded Oregon coastline, golfers from around the world have been flocking to his courses.
The property Mr. Keiser refers to has to be ideal ground for golf — sandy soil, preferably oceanside, and just enough character in the form of hills and swales to cause interesting reactions when the golf ball lands on the turf.
His latest golf venture is taking him to the Caribbean island of St. Lucia. “I’ve been there once, and it just takes your breath away,” Mr. Keiser said. “It’s such an exciting site.”
The 74-year old golf developer is “the father of remote golf,” said Ben Cowan-Dewar, Mr. Keiser’s partner in the resort that will become known as Cabot Saint Lucia.


Read more...


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/07/todaysinyt/saint-lucia-golf-resort-design.html

[Ulrich Mayring]

I'm not sure if this island is ready for that. Half of the locals are already fed up to the collar by tourists coming in from the cruiseships and the other half is so poor that they need to beg. The roads are small and traffic already horrendous. I'm sure that Saint Lucia would welcome any influx of money, but do they have the infrastructure and workforce to deliver on quality tourism?

Ulrich

[Kalen Braley]

Ulrich,


I get the feeling its envisioned as a self contained thing, similar to Bandon where you go to the resort and stay on the resort.  Implement a water-based shuttle system from airport to resort property and the visitors wouldn't clog up the existing infrastructure nor mix and mingle with the locals...old school style! 

[Tom_Doak]

Ulrich,


I get the feeling its envisioned as a self contained thing, similar to Bandon where you go to the resort and stay on the resort.  Implement a water-based shuttle system from airport to resort property and the visitors wouldn't clog up the existing infrastructure nor mix and mingle with the locals...old school style! 

Yes, but you still need staff, and if you have to bring them all in and house them profits fall to zero.  And you do need reliable infrastructure.


Still, Ben is not crazy, he must believe he has those issues sorted.

[Kalen Braley]

Ulrich,


I get the feeling its envisioned as a self contained thing, similar to Bandon where you go to the resort and stay on the resort.  Implement a water-based shuttle system from airport to resort property and the visitors wouldn't clog up the existing infrastructure nor mix and mingle with the locals...old school style! 

Yes, but you still need staff, and if you have to bring them all in and house them profits fall to zero.  And you do need reliable infrastructure.


Still, Ben is not crazy, he must believe he has those issues sorted.

Tom,


I assumed that staff would be existing island residents for the most part, not new to the island and adding to the road/housing congestion, etc.

[Garland Bayley]

I'm not sure if this island is ready for that. Half of the locals are already fed up to the collar by tourists coming in from the cruiseships and the other half is so poor that they need to beg. The roads are small and traffic already horrendous. I'm sure that Saint Lucia would welcome any influx of money, but do they have the infrastructure and workforce to deliver on quality tourism?

Ulrich

Most of the locals in the vicinity of this site have very upscale ocean view homes. The roads through them are new and nice. There is a golf course already just a bit west of the property. And, a golf course will not bring 1000s of people a day to the island.

[Carl Johnson]

I find it funny that people are shocked that C&C took this engagement.  Really?  First, look at the property.  Can potential sites get much better than this.  Second, how many architects have said no to Mike Keiser in the last 20 years.


And C&C have worked within a housing development.  See Clear Creek Tahoe.

And one would assume they'll get paid a good fee for honest work.

[Carl Nichols]

I'm not sure if this island is ready for that. Half of the locals are already fed up to the collar by tourists coming in from the cruiseships and the other half is so poor that they need to beg. The roads are small and traffic already horrendous. I'm sure that Saint Lucia would welcome any influx of money, but do they have the infrastructure and workforce to deliver on quality tourism?

Ulrich

Most of the locals in the vicinity of this site have very upscale ocean view homes. The roads through them are new and nice. There is a golf course already just a bit west of the property. And, a golf course will not bring 1000s of people a day to the island.

Have you been to the island recently?  I was there last year--stayed in both the Southwest and the Northwest--and while I certainly hope this project thrives, Ulrich makes several valid points.   

[Garland Bayley]

I'm not sure if this island is ready for that. Half of the locals are already fed up to the collar by tourists coming in from the cruiseships and the other half is so poor that they need to beg. The roads are small and traffic already horrendous. I'm sure that Saint Lucia would welcome any influx of money, but do they have the infrastructure and workforce to deliver on quality tourism?

Ulrich

Most of the locals in the vicinity of this site have very upscale ocean view homes. The roads through them are new and nice. There is a golf course already just a bit west of the property. And, a golf course will not bring 1000s of people a day to the island.

Have you been to the island recently?  I was there last year--stayed in both the Southwest and the Northwest--and while I certainly hopes this project thrives, Ulrich makes several valid points.

I was there 2 years ago. I have a picture overlooking the area where the golf course will be. Equating cruise passengers to golf resort clients is quite a stretch.

[Bob Montle]

Perhaps it is taboo to say this here given Ben's involvement in GCA, but the excitement here from folks is laughable.

It's a dense, residential, golf course in the carribean. This looks like a Davis Love course in Mexico?! Comfort stations? Really?

This is a far cry from "Golf...as it was meant to be"

Michael George - Are you sure you want to use Clear Creek as an example? Didn't that go BK in 2010/11? Maybe this is just another sign of a pending economic bubble...

+1
I won't ever be going there.

[Wayne_Kozun]

Locals fear Cabot's luxury Caribbean golf development threatens Indigenous graves

https://www.thechronicleherald.ca/news/provincial/locals-fear-cabots-luxury-caribbean-golf-development-threatens-indigenous-graves-507791/

[Ronald Montesano]

Bummer...I let my subscription to the Chronicle Herald lapse ~

[Troy Miller]

The history of this site goes back at least to the mid 2000s when it was slated for a Nicklaus Design course and development.  We did an alternative routing on it in 2008. I have very vivid memories of this because the last time I was on site was September 29, 2008; after walking the site we had drinks on the back porch of nearby St Lucia Golf Club and watched the closing bell as the market tanked to the tune of 770+ points.  Ironically, I also saw Amy Winehouse at a beach bar on Cas en Bas that day.  Perhaps an omen for the "too much, too fast" state of the real estate that was coming to a head. Needless to say the following years were not kind to resort development in the Caribbean.


The site is, however, fantastic, and does feel more like Hawaii than the Caribbean. There were some great opportunities along the cliffs and the views were stellar. The elevation change was significant, but not as significant as Kapalua. I hope this comes to fruition. I don't believe the gravesite issue had come up at that time as I don't remember it being constraint at the time. I do remember the beaches being a slight constraint as the land above it made for a great hole but flying balls over beachgoers would have be frowned upon.   

[Buck Wolter]

Congrats to Ben and team--looks like a homerun.


https://www.barrons.com/articles/serendipitous-timing-sparks-sales-boom-for-caribbean-developments-01617632440


A Changing Buyer Profile
[/color]Further south in the Caribbean, St. Lucia was the ideal spot for the developers of Nova Scotia’s acclaimed Cabot Cliffs to develop its warmer-climes project, Cabot St. Lucia. The property, located on a 375-acre peninsula on the island’s northern tip, features 1.5 miles of coastline and a stunning golf course designed by Bill Coore and Ben Crenshaw, which traverses through lush greens, jagged rocks, and sandy beaches.. With the first phase of sales launched in late 2020, land sales have exceeded expectations, bringing in more than $60 million to date (prices range from $2 million to $11 million for homesites and townhomes).
[/color]And it’s not just golf lovers who have taken to the development, according to Ben Cowan-Dewar, CEO and co-founder of Cabot
[/color]“People came thinking that the golf would be good, but when they stood on the site and soaked it in, there are so many layers to it with the culture here and the surrounding landscape,” he said. “Plus, people are realizing that the Caribbean isn’t just a place to spend two to six weeks a year in anymore. Our buyers realize that they can actually spend three to four months out of the year here and have quality family time.”

[John Emerson]

Follow Keith Rhebb on Instagram and you can see plenty of pics from the project.  I believe he is the lead on the project.

[Buck Wolter]

Congrats to Ben and team--looks like a homerun.


https://www.barrons.com/articles/serendipitous-timing-sparks-sales-boom-for-caribbean-developments-01617632440


A Changing Buyer Profile
Further south in the Caribbean, St. Lucia was the ideal spot for the developers of Nova Scotia’s acclaimed Cabot Cliffs to develop its warmer-climes project, Cabot St. Lucia. The property, located on a 375-acre peninsula on the island’s northern tip, features 1.5 miles of coastline and a stunning golf course designed by Bill Coore and Ben Crenshaw, which traverses through lush greens, jagged rocks, and sandy beaches.. With the first phase of sales launched in late 2020, land sales have exceeded expectations, bringing in more than $60 million to date (prices range from $2 million to $11 million for homesites and townhomes).
And it’s not just golf lovers who have taken to the development, according to Ben Cowan-Dewar, CEO and co-founder of Cabot
“People came thinking that the golf would be good, but when they stood on the site and soaked it in, there are so many layers to it with the culture here and the surrounding landscape,” he said. “Plus, people are realizing that the Caribbean isn’t just a place to spend two to six weeks a year in anymore. Our buyers realize that they can actually spend three to four months out of the year here and have quality family time.”

I would think $60M in real estate sales has to be some sort Residential Golf Development record, obviously more going on than golf but that is an amazing # -- I have no idea how much more they have to sell. I saw they already paid off a $30M Note on the development.

[MCirba]

The existing nine-hole golf course on the island associated with the Sandals Resort "La Toc" may be the worst golf course ever built, so competition will be scarce.   Virtually every hole has dense jungle on one side and water hazards (refuse to use "penalty area") on the other with a 20 yard wide fairway squeezed between.


Ironically, or perhaps not, the architect's name was Richard Colon.

[Greg Tallman]

I don’t think $60 million is a record, for St Lucia for sure but in general? No.


Project here in Cabo has recorded $200 million since February and that’s likely not a record for Cabo over such a span of time.

[SB]

I don’t think $60 million is a record, for St Lucia for sure but in general? No.


Project here in Cabo has recorded $200 million since February and that’s likely not a record for Cabo over such a span of time.

Bobby Ginn sold $320 million on a single day...


http://theaposition.com/golfcoursebusiness/real-estate/72/bella-collina

[Phil Burr]

Bobby Ginn should hardly be lauded as a great example of how to sell successful high end real estate.

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