El Camino/Tobacco Road

[Rob Hallford]

Instead of working this fine Friday, I was browsing Tobacco Road's website (as one does).  I came across this cryptic description:


https://tobaccoroadgolf.com/course/#elcamino


And a scorecard to go with it:  https://tobaccoroadgolf.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/el-camino_scorecard.pdf


Anybody played it?  Is it new construction or does it play to existing greens from new tee boxes?  My mastery of the search function of the GCA DG is tenuous at best--sorry if this has been discussed already.


rob

[Rob Hallford]

Google finds this:


https://www.golfcrusade.com/blog/elcamino


Interesting, but the angles don't look so different from where I'd play from anyway.  Thoughts?  Anyone try it?

[Ronald Montesano]

I'll be nasty about this one.


Don't simply throw down tee markers in the fairway and call it a new angle. Since it is fairway, a shot has probably been played from there on many occasions.


Do your due diligence and find a new way to a new tee deck. Your grounds crew has a network of "caminos" throughout the golf course, so utilize those to access the new tee decks.


The first time I played Bandon Dunes, in 2005, the caddies told me about the hidden Keiser tee on 17. That's what I consider a unique tee deck.


I do applaud and encourage this type of thing, assuming a range staff that allows golfers playing the big course to not be disrupted by golfers playing the short course.

[Philip Hensley]

If you guys are playing from those angles, let me caddie for you next time you play there. I'll save you quite a few strokes.


As wide as the fairways are, I'm not sure where you could put a tee that wouldn't be where someone could claim that's the angle they usually play from. Where are they supposed to put the tees instead?



Course looks pretty cool. Looks like most of the tees are where you have to hit a pretty precise shot to carry a bunker to get to the flag. I'm sure as time goes on they'll figure out even more interesting tee locations.


The 6th hole looks like the alternate tee set way to the right that I have only seen used one time.

[Ronald Montesano]

Here are some links to Google Maps overheads that I enhanced with cheap graphics. They emphasize current tee decks, fairway spaces that no one ever visits, and a wee bit of tree clearing to access green number six from a different angle. Front nine first. I realize that they don't appear here, but I didn't want to load the server with extra images.


http://buffalogolfer.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/9thFWto1stGreen-Medium.png

http://buffalogolfer.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/4thTeeTo2ndGreen-Medium.png

http://buffalogolfer.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/4thBunkerTo4thGreen-Medium-1.png

http://buffalogolfer.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/6thTeeTo5thGreen-Medium-1.png

http://buffalogolfer.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/7thFairwyto6thGreen-Medium.png

[Ronald Montesano]

Here are some more from the back-nine putting surfaces


2nd tee forward to 10th green
http://buffalogolfer.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Screenshot-28-Medium.png

11th Pit to 11th Green (my buddy aims for the pit. He'll throw his ball down in if he misses-loves that shot)
http://buffalogolfer.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Screenshot-29-Medium.png

12th Hillside to 12th green
http://buffalogolfer.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Screenshot-30-Medium.png

14th tee to 13th green (lots of decks to choose from)
http://buffalogolfer.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Screenshot-31-Medium.png

14th Hillside to 14th green (cheek-squeezer here; all that remains as a backstop is lake stupid)
http://buffalogolfer.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Screenshot-32-Medium.png

12th Hillside to 18th green
http://buffalogolfer.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Screenshot-33-Medium.png

[Ronald Montesano]

My thinking is, it doesn't cost a lot of money to build tees. You do it in-house, you bring students in from local programs, to give them experience in clearing, piling and grading.


My thinking also is, you restrict play to early morning (first ten tee times) and later in the day (beyond 7 pm.) You tell people that they have to move. You have the way clearly marked. You have a really good map. You keep people away from greens 15-17, as they are on the other side of the road. I suspect that there is a maintenance path from 14 green to 18 fairway, which gets you to your home hole.


My thinking additionally is, I'm spitballing and dreaming here, but actual tee decks legitimize a layout. Each time I walk past super-junior tees in the fairway, my thinking is, this is great for beginners, but would I pay for this?

[Rob Hallford]

Ronald--that's what I was thinking as well, and I love the creativity!  My home course does a par 3 contest playing from vastly different angles, but it's only possible because they shut the course down for that event. 


Philip--it's not the lack of caddie input that puts me in those spots!  Maybe I'm being a bit harsh given their limitations (the course has to stay open for regular play while people try the par 3 version), but it ain't exactly playing the Old Course backwards, is it?  And the way they pitch it on the website is like they're sharing some secret loop that only the locals know.  I got excited only to see the pics and then feel a little "meh". 


I've had very similar shots during play into 1, 4, 5, 7, and 9.  2 is different, sure, but that green is so tame I'm not sure a different angle brings anything terribly new into the equation.  3 is shorter and more from the left, but with a wedge in hand, does it matter?  I can't quite figure out where 6 is coming in from.  8 just looks shorter. 


OK, so it gives people in to play TR a reason to open a few beers and go back out to gamble and have fun.  Completely reasonable and a good strategy for TR.  Architecturally, though, I agree with Ronald--it's a missed opportunity.  And The Cradle is 30 minutes away... 

[Ryan Farrow]

My thinking additionally is, I'm spitballing and dreaming here, but actual tee decks legitimize a layout. Each time I walk past super-junior tees in the fairway, my thinking is, this is great for beginners, but would I pay for this?

Funny, I was just having a debate with myself about the need for flat tees considering we only take 18 swipes from flat ground during a round. I guess the golf would have to be free.

Is there anything more unnatural on a golf course than a laser levelled tee box? Do we need them? Do they need to be grass?


Rob, yes it may be disappointing to you but how often does a golf facility say, hey, the course is empty go knock it around, we are totally cool with you doing whatever you want out there? It's a fun idea, that yes, would only work certain times of the day but  it lets you go back out there and have fun, with a little direction of course. Sort of a play on the course within a course concept. We talk it about it all the time when building... I'm sure Mike Clayton would approve.

[Ronald Montesano]

That is a SPECTACULAR point. I don't think that they need be level at all. I like your thinking. I believe that they need to be different. We could call the course El camino del borracho or something like that, and ensure that the newly-created tees are undulating and a bit off.


There's something about trudging into uncharted territory, from which to safely play a shot. It makes the short course differ from the rest.


I suspect that they are using El Camino as a test, to see how folks respond to it. From the aerials, there is land adjacent for development, that could turn into a dedicated short course. Or, they might go all Montesano on El Camino and add the tees I suggest. I'll waive my routing fees for this occasion.

[Rob Hallford]

Ryan--I'm all in favor of that perspective, and kudos to TR for trying it.  Whisky loops, alternate routings, par 3 courses--count me in for all of the above.  I'm headed there on Saturday, and I'll report back when I've taken a look and, you know, actually maybe played it.