[Ally Mcintosh]

Just concluding my first ever golf trip to Cornwall, a county that needs to be visited with or without clubs. We were based in the St Moritz hotel apartments, in Trebetherick just along the coast from Rock. It was an excellent base, primarily for St Enodoc golf club, but also for the beaches at Daymer Bay and Polzeath, as well as for very good dining options (Mowhay Cafe, Surfside at Polzeath and the ferry across to Padstow). I played:


St Enodoc Church x 2
St Enodoc Holywell
Trevose
Perranporth
Bude & North Cornwall


I hoped to see West Cornwall and Newquay but didn’t find time.


Trevose I commented about on its own Arble thread but it exceeded my expectations. The holes were consistently excellent on very good land, plenty of small scale land movement, more than I had been led to believe. The upgrade work by Tom MacKenzie is to be applauded, bunker placements advancing strategy, deception and aesthetics. But really what stood out is the further proof of Colt’s sophistication. He really did eke out the best of the land on almost all courses he worked on, finding a feature or a green site on every hole that might have been missed by others. Every Colt course is almost a guarantee of quality and Trevose certainly confirms that. Doak 7


This trip also provided further proof to me that Braid didn’t bring Colt’s level of elegance and sophistication. His detailing generally wasn’t of the same standard, his greens on lesser ground less interesting. And whilst everything with Colt always looks in the right place, the same cannot be said of Braid... BUT what Braid brought to the table was a sense of fun and liberalism in some of his hole routing choices that the more conservative Colt would shy away from.

He consistently built holes with greens perched over mounds, up high or just with quirky features on the main hole corridor. And when it works, it really does work. St. Enodoc had a bunch of holes that I don’t think Colt would ever have built, and for a while, I thought I might be playing the best course in the world. I still think it might be the best 12 hole course anywhere (if you walk off 9 and head back up 16). What a brilliant experience, great use of stone walls, blind shots, green placements, dunes, views, undulation and no shortage of strategy. Unfortunately, 11 and 13 are merely ordinary, 10 - whilst interesting - is close to being a bad hole, and 12, 14 & 15 are just very good holes on an otherwise great course.... But they still add variety and from a routing perspective, take you down to Daymer Bay and give another vibe. So even these holes win the day... what a fantastic course. I’d be happy playing here for evermore. Doak 9.

On the other hand, I think the site at Perranporth would have stretched the ability of any golf course architect and here, I think Braid’s sense of fun has tipped over the edge.


I’m as big a fan of blind holes as anyone. Unlike most other living architects, I even build them. But 18 barber’s poles on one course is just too many. The thrill starts to dissipate and the round becomes a little tiring, especially when the blind landing areas often don’t give any let-up with less than ample room. I’ve no idea if there could have been a better course out there: A heaving land form that curves away from the cliffs / bay in a convex fashion would pose a problem for anyone. First thought is why did Braid only route three par-3’s when they are the easiest holes to bring back some normality to proceedings.


Either way, the course is a whole heap of fun with outrageous shots, gorgeous views and a real uniqueness. I could perhaps grow to love it on repeated plays. It is perfectly natural (aside from a few rudimentary pushed up greens) and is what golf is all about. It should not be missed. But it is not “great” golf. Doak 5


I actually think there are a better group of holes at Bude & North Cornwall than at Perranporth. Where the former fails compared to the latter is that it is on links land encased by housing and no views. And it has a few routing flaws (the walk to the par-3 fourth and the back and forth of the last 5 holes). Those flaws aside, there are a bunch of excellent holes, the 3rd, 6th, 7th, 11th, 12th, 13th among them, and almost all the others are very good with individual features and a lot of variety, even if the start of the course on the far side of the road does feel a little mundane. Quite a few blind shots here also but just few enough to remain novel and rewarding. Both the 14th and 16th have echoes of the Alps 17th at Prestwick and overall, I found the course very playable and enjoyable. Granted, it is far less spectacular than Perranporth but I’m certainly happy I didn’t pass this one by (the initial plan). Doak 5


Which brings me back to St Enodoc and the Holywell course. Some of this land was part of the original 18 and although the course only plays at 4,100 yards par-63, the nine holes on the near side of the road (1-3 and 13-18) offer excellent links golf on undulating ground. The 14th is a wonderful uphill, split fairway par-4 and the 175 yd 15th must be one of the most fearsome par-3’s I’ve ever played, over violent ground to a small, upturned saucer green. The nine on the far side of the road have an inland feel and whilst offering the occasional interesting shot, can be skipped if you’re in the market for a late evening nine. Doak 5 for the near side of the road, Doak 2 for the far side of the road.


Away from the golf, the whole Cornish coastline (north and south) is almost surreal in its beauty. Add in the generally warm climate and for holidaying golfers, I’m hard pushed to think of a better all-round destination.


Ally

[jeffwarne]

Great writeup-very descriptive and makes me yearn for a return to Cornwall.


Always seems like my favorite courses in the world are Doak 5's    (or lower)

[Sean_A]

Ally

Thanks for your thoughts.  I largely agree even though our numbers vary a bit.  Its a tough group of courses to assess in a bunch because Trevose is very lacking in funk compared to the other courses.

I like the vibe of Trevose as much as the course, though I am not as high on it as you are.  A 7 for me would make it a shoe in top 50 GB&I and I think it falls well short of that. The big issue is Trevose is lacking that really special hole or two to be top 50. 

Interesting that I agree with B&NC as a 5, but that is based on the killer 12th, the funky supporting cast of 6, 7 & 14 and the very good 4, 5 & 15.  Balanced against these holes are what I think of as an unusual number of flops in 8, 9, 10 (just an awful part of the course) and 18. 1 & 2 are not terribly exciting either.

I admire St Enodoc a ton and to be truthful I don't know where it truly stands on the Doak scale.  I have no doubt it is one of the best 10-20 in GB&I.  If that means it is a 9 fair enough.  I give it a 7, bordering on 8 (need more plays) thinking there are some truly wonderful courses both new and classic that I haven't seen.  So I err on the conservative side...which is my usual fallback position.

Perranporth...marmite for sure.  A tough domed and rugged property exposed to serious wind.  I think a bit of a helping hand in terms of widening/softening some fairways would make the course more playable and possibly better for it.  But like Pennard, I am reluctant (very reluctant) to get behind any such work because P'porth is so highly unusual.  So many courses have been softened that I hate to see architecture restricting its possibilities.  Even if as I grow more reluctant to tackle golf's truly adventurous courses (of which I count P'porth among them) I like to know they are still out there waiting for the next generation to rediscover the joys of the game.  The sheer exuberance of the design while remaining a good walk, all considered, deserves a solid 6 in my book.  In 10 years I would probably happily trade it for Trevose, but for now, P'porth is clearly the course I would choose between the two. 

I did a quick matchplay between N&NC an P'porth, its not even close. 

1. P
2. P
3. P
4. B
5. P...close call
6. H...I give the benefit of doubt to B here...P's short hole is terrific
7. B wins this battle of funk
8. P
9. P
10. P
11. P...close call here..win goes to par 5 edited, G convinced me...H
12. B
13. H
14. B...close call, I like both a lot
15. B
16. H...both are kind of hit and hope holes
17. H...may lean toward B
18. P

I think the difference maker comes down to bland VS flawed.  P'porth goes OTT here and there.  Whereas B&NC can be straight out bland for several holes. 

Anyway, its good to have a chat about one of my favourite golfing destinations...cheers.

Ciao

[Garland Bayley]

...
I actually think there are a better group of holes at Bude & North Cornwall than at Perranporth. Where the former fails compared to the latter is that it is on links land encased by housing and no views. And it has a few routing flaws (the walk to the par-3 fourth and the back and forth of the last 5 holes). Those flaws aside, there are a bunch of excellent holes, the 3rd, 6th, 7th, 11th, 12th, 13th among them, and almost all the others are very good with individual features and a lot of variety, even if the start of the course on the far side of the road does feel a little mundane. Quite a few blind shots here also but just few enough to remain novel and rewarding. Both the 14th and 16th have echoes of the Alps 17th at Prestwick and overall, I found the course very playable and enjoyable. Granted, it is far less spectacular than Perranporth but I’m certainly happy I didn’t pass this one by (the initial plan). Doak 5

From the Bude and North Cornwall (No Tom, it's not a 3) IMO thread https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,59960.msg1416020.html#msg1416020

GJ:  You and several other participants here must all come from Lake Wobegon, where all the golf courses are above average.

I did mention Bude's cool setting, which you have done well to illustrate.

...
Ally

Welcome to Lake Wobegon Ally.

[Garland Bayley]

It seems to me that the barber poles at Bude were all necessary, as without them you would have no idea what the target was. I.e., totally blind shots. Whereas, at Perranporth you often had a sense of where to hit without the added suggestion of the poles. Bude perhaps had more totally blind shots than Perranporth.

With respect to St. Enodoc, the suggestion I have heard, or seen here is that it could be truly great (Doak 10?) if the weaker holes on Church were replaced by some of the better holes on the Holywell course. I didn't take the opportunity to play the Holywell course, but I thought you might like the food for thought.

[Ally Mcintosh]

I think Tom should have another look at Bude. There is something to admire with almost every hole.


Even the 8,9,10 corner has a lot going for it, offering a different feel and some compelling shots. Sean is far too harsh on these holes, as he is with 18 which I rather admired.


Only 1, 2 & 5 are ordinary and the last of these has a good green.


Its weakness is its tight site. Not only do the last 5 work back and forward but they are quite close together with the practice ground in between. But each of them offers quite the puzzle. High on the joy to be alive scale (even given that on this occasion I played poorly and in pouring rain).


Garland, not sure I necessarily agree about the barber’s poles at Perranporth. I consider myself reasonably good at reading dune land and I wouldn’t have had a clue where I was going without a few of them (2, 7, 12, 17 come to mind).

[Garland Bayley]

"I did a quick matchplay between N&NC (sic) an (sic) P'porth, its (sic) not even close."

1. P
2. P
3. B
4. B
5. P...close call
6. B ... P's short hole is just plain hard, which is easy to create B's is more strategic.
7. B
8. P
9. P
10. P
11. B Both par 5s, B is the 4.5 with strategy and ability to turn the ball indicated, while P just elevates a narrow green dictating how you set up your third.
12. B
13. H
14. B...close call, I like both a lot
15. B
16. H...both are kind of hit and hope holes
17. B
18. P

Perranporth is an ecstatic experience from the get go, whereas, B&NC starts slow and slowly charms you until you are ecstatic.

[Ally Mcintosh]

With respect to St. Enodoc, the suggestion I have heard, or seen here is that it could be truly great (Doak 10?) if the weaker holes on Church were replaced by some of the better holes on the Holywell course. I didn't take the opportunity to play the Holywell course, but I thought you might like the food for thought.

Definitely not. Whilst the holes down by the bay don’t offer the same kind of ground undulation as some of the Holywell holes, they are an integral part of the adventure that the routing of the Church takes you on, past the graveyard and down to Daymer Bay. That sense of adventure and awe would be lost by subbing in a few holes up on higher ground, far away from the sea. You’d also introduce an element of doubling back on yourself. Initial reaction is I don’t buy it but I might have a look in to it just for fun.

[Craig Disher]

The temporary drop-off in quality at St Enodoc after 9 has been often noted. A great solution would be moving that blasted little church that sits awkwardly in the middle of the course. Move it to the site of the 11th green and a world of opportunity opens up.

Seriously, the 13th hole is the weak link (along with the 11th which we've solved by relocating the church). Moving the green from its original location and adding the pointless rear bunker seems a wasted exercise. The hole is severely uphill and the additional length just increases the slog. The new green isn't all that interesting either. The original green, hanging onto the right edge of the fairway and fronted by the still-visible ridges and hollows, was much more in character. It wasn't as though the tee couldn't have been moved back.

[Thomas Dai]

Thanks for the report Ally.
I thought you’d like holes 1-3 and 13-18 on the Holywell at St-E. Some really fine holes over some lovely humpy-bumpy terrain. Some terrific raised greens. The 15th is a lovely yet evil gem of a par-3.
As to the Church Course at St-E, I haven’t been there since they undertook Tom’s suggested alterations to the left side of the driving zone on the 10th but based on my experiences before that, well holes 1-9 and 16-18 are epically wonderful. As to the others, well let’s just say that if a round of golf were only 12-holes I’d be happy to play the course very frequently but as it’s 18 not 12 I wouldn’t. As I say I haven’t seen Toms changes to the 10th. Nor have I seen Clydes new tee on the 18th either.
Perranporth is well, just Perranporth. A bit like Painswick, it’s just different, unique, a one-off. A course in its own little bracket. My guess, for what’s it’s worth, is that Braid did some of the things he did at P’porth due to lack of funds. By the way, did you happen to cast your eyes to the north on the back-9 at P’porth and see the linksland where the holiday camp etc is? Wow!
Bude interests me. Somewhere I need to visit one day.
Atb


Some of the terrain over holes 1-3 and 13-18 at the Holywell course at St Enodoc -

[Sean_A]

Ally

Tom could have a look at many courses he saw back in the early 80s.

Garland

I can understand your preference for B's 3, 6 & 11.  That said, B's 3rd is nothing special in terms of challenge.  At least P's makes you hit a good drive to have a good chance of a decent length approach. Plus, the setting is marvelous.  B's 6th green is too similar to the 7th, both are holes which need more generous greens given the nature of the blind approaches.  P's 6th is a sublime short hole which does allow for recovery.  The 11th too I get, great landform, but not so great execution of the hole.  I didn't care for zero fairway when I was there.  Sort out a fairway and its a good hole even if hitting into the plains for the next is a bit of a letdown after the tee shot. When I was there is was basically, drive blindly into rough and hack out.  It seemed to me that area of the course could have been used for more than one hole flying over the top.  It would have made for a cool green site.  P's 11th is a bit unusual so I could go for a half. 

But man, P doesn't have anything as dull or bad as 1, 2 and 8-10.  The 8-10 route strikes me as a quasi-modern compromise to solve a land issue.  The 10th is very, very bad and totally out of links character.  Its so bad the area has to be walked out of for the next!  Basically, the course is worked into two property corners with blunt solutions as to the escape.  Same could be said for the 3-4 transition...not in the least elegant. 


As an aside, I strongly suspect 1-4 had greens on the far side of roads...that may have been very cool. I also think the 18th green was salvaged from a hole that ran down the hill. The 18th makes no sense to me, so I don't think its green location was meant for that hole.


Ciao

[Tommy Williamsen]

Cornwall and Devon are two of my favorite places in England. I was an overseas member at Westward Ho! and Saunton. I'd go for ten days for many years. The golf in the area is transcendent. St. Enodoc is in my top ten golf experiences in England. One of my favorite things to do is to hike the Southwest Coast path. The coastline in Cornwall might be the most beautiful place in GB.


I was not a big fan of Trevose. Not sure why, it could have been my mood.  B&NC was fun but cramped.

[Thomas Dai]

If in Devon and Cornwall don’t just focus on seaside courses.
For example, Yelverton GC by Herbert Fowler on the edge of Dartmoor is certainly well worth playing and then there are the likes of Teignmouth GC by Alister MacKenzie. East Devon GC too.
Atb

[Ally Mcintosh]

The temporary drop-off in quality at St Enodoc after 9 has been often noted. A great solution would be moving that blasted little church that sits awkwardly in the middle of the course. Move it to the site of the 11th green and a world of opportunity opens up.

Seriously, the 13th hole is the weak link (along with the 11th which we've solved by relocating the church). Moving the green from its original location and adding the pointless rear bunker seems a wasted exercise. The hole is severely uphill and the additional length just increases the slog. The new green isn't all that interesting either. The original green, hanging onto the right edge of the fairway and fronted by the still-visible ridges and hollows, was much more in character. It wasn't as though the tee couldn't have been moved back.

I’d like to see a photo of that original 13th green if there is one knocking around? It clearly is the weakest hole on the course.


The original 16th green also looked more in keeping and it was a lovely green site. But at least I see the logic in pushing it back to where it currently resides.

[Craig Disher]

I’d like to see a photo of that original 13th green if there is one knocking around? It clearly is the weakest hole on the course.

The original 16th green also looked more in keeping and it was a lovely green site. But at least I see the logic in pushing it back to where it currently resides.

Here are a couple. I like this better - smaller green with a real problem with a miss to the right.

[Guy Nicholson]

I was in North Devon and Cornwall with family a couple of weeks ago. I only played one round there, at Royal North Devon, which lived up to all expectations and then some. But I was sorry not to have had time to play the likes of Saunton and St. Enodoc.


But I'm with you about that coast. The beaches, walking and atmosphere were right up there with the Oregons, Nova Scotias and New Zealands of the world. It helped that we had unseasonably warm and sunny weather, and that we were there just before the start of tourist season. We saw a lot of the coast from Lynton to St. Ives -- what a fantastic trip.

[Ed Tilley]

Away from the golf, the whole Cornish coastline (north and south) is almost surreal in its beauty. Add in the generally warm climate and for holidaying golfers, I’m hard pushed to think of a better all-round destination.

I've always wondered why more American golfers don't go to SW England. Fly into London, play a couple of rounds on the great heathland courses, then drive down. Burnham & Berrow, Saunton, RND, St.Enodoc, Trevose, Perranporth. Food and scenery are great, golf is fantastic, cost is far cheaper than Scotland or Ireland - and the weather is usually better. Keep it to yourselves though as it keeps the golf cheaper for us.

I'm at Saunton next weekend and am looking forward to it immensely.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Skip London and fly into Bristol. Easy access to the southwest and skip the hassle of Heathrow.

[Thomas Dai]

Exeter too. And maybe even Newquay!
atb

[Ally Mcintosh]

OK,


Just because Sean and Garland did it, I will attempt my first ever match play on Perranporth vs Bude:


1. Half (holes are quite similar)
2. Perranporth (for the lovely green because I find the blind shepherds crook dogleg to be a bit too much)
3. Bude (really strategic despite Perranporth’s being absolutely beautiful to look at)
4. Half (both good par-3’s, Bude’s more classic, Perranporth’s high on fun)
5. Perranporth (really good par-5)
6. Bude (don’t see the approach as blind here - really good hole)
7. Half (both courses very quirky)
8. Half (both holes only OK)
9. Perranporth (though this was close. With a little tree clearing, Bude has an attractive long approach over a valley)


Perranporth turns 1 UP


10. Perranporth (just a little more strategic than Bude’s cute Par-3)
11. Bude (better if the two par-5’s)
12. Bude (excellent par-4 with wonderful approach)
13. Half (cool green at Perranporth but no landing area on tee shot. Lovely long par-3 at Bude)
14. Perranporth (charmed by the Alps approach at Bude but Perranporth’s hole is a better one)
15. Bude (a lot of things to contend with vs almost the most straightforward hole at Perranporth)
16. Half (two good holes. Charmed by Perranporth’s short hole)
17. Perranporth (gets it for the unsusual tee shot and large green)
18. Half (very different holes)


Perranporth wins by 1 hole... add in the location and views and it is definitely the first to visit between the two.


But don’t underrate Bude.

[Tim Gallant]

Ally,


Lovely write-up and I must have missed you by a day or so! I was also playing St Enodoc.


I was most interested in your quote below. Could you give me more detail on what you mean and some examples?


Braid didn’t bring Colt’s level of elegance and sophistication. His detailing generally wasn’t of the same standard

[Ally Mcintosh]

Ally,


Lovely write-up and I must have missed you by a day or so! I was also playing St Enodoc.


I was most interested in your quote below. Could you give me more detail on what you mean and some examples?


Braid didn’t bring Colt’s level of elegance and sophistication. His detailing generally wasn’t of the same standard

I just wrote an essay in response to this. And whilst in the midst of patting myself on the back, I lost connection.

Maybe again later.

[Tim Gallant]

Ally,


Lovely write-up and I must have missed you by a day or so! I was also playing St Enodoc.


I was most interested in your quote below. Could you give me more detail on what you mean and some examples?


Braid didn’t bring Colt’s level of elegance and sophistication. His detailing generally wasn’t of the same standard

I just wrote an essay in response to this. And whilst in the midst of patting myself on the back, I lost connection.

Maybe again later.

Daggers! Hope you try again

[Tim Gallant]

Ally,


Appreciate you’re busy, but I’d love to hear your thoughts on this, even if bulleted! Trying to learn as much as possible

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