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Pete Lavallee

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Donald Ross greens; drainage or difficulty?
« on: May 26, 2019, 05:45:16 PM »
In my experience when Donald Ross sited his greens he relied on high spots, very similar to Royal Dornoch. When presented with flat land he almost always built push up greens, similar to Pinehurst. Was he trying to ratchet up difficulty in recovery or just trying to improve drainage? How important was drainage to Golden Age Courses?
« Last Edit: May 26, 2019, 05:50:56 PM by Pete Lavallee »
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Kyle Harris

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Re: Donald Ross greens; drainage or difficulty?
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2019, 06:28:27 PM »
Quote from: Pete Lavallee on May 26, 2019, 05:45:16 PM
In my experience when Donald Ross sited his greens he relied on high spots, very similar to Royal Dornoch. When presented with flat land he almost always built push up greens, similar to Pinehurst. Was he trying to ratchet up difficulty in recovery or just trying to improve drainage? How important was drainage to Golden Age Courses?

I'm not sure this was exclusive to Ross.


What are some examples of the opposite? Would they have survived?
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Rick Lane

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Re: Donald Ross greens; drainage or difficulty?
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2019, 03:09:24 PM »
Pretty sure Tillinghast did same......raised greens and pretty obvious where the water drains.....helps to read putts thinking about drainage issues.     At my old US club, there are a few original greensites from 1895 still evident, and they were convex, small versions of Pinehurst #2, I would think for the same reason....not raised per se, but certainly crowned. Gotta move that water!
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Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Donald Ross greens; drainage or difficulty?
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2019, 03:23:08 PM »
Before 1970 almost all greens were push-up greens. The greens tended to be pushed-up but the moniker describes the method of construction. Most greens today ar USGA spec. A push-up green is one that was shaped with a bulldozer using the native soil.
No a big deal.
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Mark_Fine

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Re: Donald Ross greens; drainage or difficulty?
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2019, 07:22:57 PM »
I am sure most everyone here realizes the current turtleback greens at Pinehurst #2 are not Ross.  C&C were not allowed to touch them when they did their work on the course.  Most know the story of the greens evolution so I won't repeat it here. 
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Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Donald Ross greens; drainage or difficulty?
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2019, 08:48:21 AM »

Pete,


Almost certainly drainage, IMHO.  If you read "Golf Has Never Failed Me" there is a pic of a punch bowl green, with a caption that it is doomed to failure.  Three chapters cover drainage (one called drainage, drainage, drainage - although that might have been editor Ron Whitten's title, not Ross).


In another spot he mentions that you can add contour to a green, but it seems separate from actually locating one.  Ross was a really practical guy, and a frugal Scot.  No doubt he tried to build courses to last.
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