[Thomas Dai]

What kind of golf do YOU find dull, boring, unexciting, uninspiring, disinteresting etc and why?
Atb

[Bill Charles]

What kind of golf do YOU find dull, boring, unexciting, uninspiring, disinteresting etc and why?
Atb

Bethpage Black.

[Rick Lane]

This goes to the thread about 5 iron carry distance in a way. 

Its Dull, boring, etc when I am at the wrong set of tees for the course and its setup.   Once played Medinah from too far back, and couldn't really hit and hold the par fours with 200+ in all the time.    So I gave up and layed up and tried to get up and down.  Felt silly.    Using the math in the 5 iron thread, I can CARRY a 5 iron about 170-175 = 6120-6300 yard course.  I typically look to play 65-6600.....starts to get too long and a lot less fun at about 6800....  Throw in a heavy wind (I think of the Ocean Course) and I should be playing even shorter to "have fun". 

[SL_Solow]

Bill,  As you know, i have indicated that it is not worth the time to engage with Nick.  I only note that your continued cross references to his threads only serves to prolong the discussion and divert us from more productive discussions.  Perhaps this thread was designed ro do that and if so my comment applies equally to it.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I will second that playing the wrong tees make the round dull. It has been hard to move up. I played the back tees for 40 years. Ten years ago  moved up one tee marker. This past year I moved up one more to about 6200 or 6300 yards. I had three friends to my club a couple of weeks ago and played one tee marker in front of them. I knew I had to but it was tough to do for my ego.

[Garland Bayley]

When I have to spend time searching for balls.

Otherwise it is pretty much all good, especially if I have someone to beat, like Bill Thomas.

[Duncan Cheslett]

"Parkland" courses on clay soil where every fairway is an avenue of trees.


Courses where I feel as if I've played the same hole five or six times.






There are many such courses, all of which have lots of members who absolutely love the place.

[Kalen Braley]

I think Duncan makes an excellent point. 

While not members of specific clubs, I've met countless golfers who rarely think to venture beyond thier own local courses to play more interesting courses.  For them the course is merely the vessel to facilitate the playing of the shots and the chit chat and the getting outside and having a bit of recreation and fun....the course is certainly nowhere near the main attraction as it to most of us.

So dull golf as we define it may not even be on the radar of most golfers....

[Tommy Williamsen]

I think Duncan makes an excellent point. 

While not members of specific clubs, I've met countless golfers who rarely think to venture beyond thier own local courses to play more interesting courses.  For them the course is merely the vessel to facilitate the playing of the shots and the chit chat and the getting outside and having a bit of recreation and fun....the course is certainly nowhere near the main attraction as it to most of us.

So dull golf as we define it may not even be on the radar of most golfers....

Kalen, don't you think you have described the vast majority of golfers. About twenty years ago I brought a young fellow to Pine Valley. He was a great junior player in the state and I thought it might be a nice thing to get him to see one of the best courses in the country. After we played he asked, "Do you really think it is the best course in the country. I'm not sure I liked it. It was odd."
I took my son that same day. "Wow, Dad this is the coolest course I've ever seen." He wasn't as good a player but he got it. Thue first junior only thought about score. If a course didn't allow him to score well the course was unfair.

[Kalen Braley]

Tommy,

I certainly agree here.  And quite frankly the issue has vexed me over the years.  We advocate more interesting/fun courses, but what if the masses don't actually want them?  And its not about the interest of the golf course that will keep the game alive, but the social aspects, and scoring well, and taking a cart and knocking a few back? 

Maybe I shouldn't even dare to ask, but is dull, boring, cheap golf that I presume is cheaper to build/maintain the future of golf?

Perhaps I am just over thinking it a bit, and Thomas my apologies if this is too far off topic for this thread...

[Nick Ribeiro]

I see the desperate plea for Driver / 60 degree wedge on every par 4 continues 

[Pete_Pittock]

When I have to spend time searching for balls.

Otherwise it is pretty much all good, especially if I have someone to beat, like Bill Thomas.

Garland,
That's not dull, but routine
Multiple holes that basically play the same. I guess that = no variety,

[jeffwarne]

This goes to the thread about 5 iron carry distance in a way. 

Its Dull, boring, etc when I am at the wrong set of tees for the course and its setup.   Once played Medinah from too far back, and couldn't really hit and hold the par fours with 200+ in all the time.    So I gave up and layed up and tried to get up and down.  Felt silly.    Using the math in the 5 iron thread, I can CARRY a 5 iron about 170-175 = 6120-6300 yard course.  I typically look to play 65-6600.....starts to get too long and a lot less fun at about 6800....  Throw in a heavy wind (I think of the Ocean Course) and I should be playing even shorter to "have fun".

Jack Nicklaus was one of the longest drivers of his day.
In Golf My Way, he listed his 5 iron TOTAL distance as 170-185 yards
So I'd assume he carried it 170-175-maybe 180 tops
yet they didn't play 6120-6300 yards courses


My problem with such a formula is a foursome of 13 handicappers could end up playing from four different sets of tees
It's interesting to me that as the ball and equipment have gotten much longer-there are more sets of men's tees that play shorter than the one set of "white" member's tees of years ago..
creating a gap of as much as 1500-1800 yards between some men's tees and the new back tees

[Nick Ribeiro]

According to Golf Week, Men average 100-140 yards for their pitching wedge. Tour Pros average 136 yards but it should be noted tour pros are not hitting game improvement irons where many single digit amateurs do.
https://golftips.golfweek.com/far-should-pitching-wedge-shot-go-20163.html
Unfortunately I couldn't find an exact date on when the article was printed but the link suggests 2016.
I wonder how these numbers compare to the 2019 wedges in distance??


For a player who say hits his wedge 140 and his drive 300, every par 4 under 440 that is NOT tree lined is Driver / Wedge.


Personally I hit my wedge 150 but I'll use a friend as an example. He is retired from the MLB (so obviously the minority) and he hits his wedge 200 yards. He hits his Driver 330-350. Nothing excites him except for long par 5 holes or courses that force him to hit irons off the tee. Example would be tight tree lined dog legs that he can still cut corners with Irons he never gets to play on open courses.


With technology advancing leaps and bounds so quickly today, how long until we are all playing his game?

[Rob Marshall]

According to Golf Week, Men average 100-140 yards for their pitching wedge. Tour Pros average 136 yards but it should be noted tour pros are not hitting game improvement irons where many single digit amateurs do.
https://golftips.golfweek.com/far-should-pitching-wedge-shot-go-20163.html
Unfortunately I couldn't find an exact date on when the article was printed but the link suggests 2016.
I wonder how these numbers compare to the 2019 wedges in distance??


For a player who say hits his wedge 140 and his drive 300, every par 4 under 440 that is NOT tree lined is Driver / Wedge.


Personally I hit my wedge 150 but I'll use a friend as an example. He is retired from the MLB (so obviously the minority) and he hits his wedge 200 yards. He hits his Driver 330-350. Nothing excites him except for long par 5 holes or courses that force him to hit irons off the tee. Example would be tight tree lined dog legs that he can still cut corners with Irons he never gets to play on open courses.


With technology advancing leaps and bounds so quickly today, how long until we are all playing his game?

200 yard wedge on a standard wedge trajectory? Come on..

[Nick Ribeiro]

According to Golf Week, Men average 100-140 yards for their pitching wedge. Tour Pros average 136 yards but it should be noted tour pros are not hitting game improvement irons where many single digit amateurs do.
https://golftips.golfweek.com/far-should-pitching-wedge-shot-go-20163.html
Unfortunately I couldn't find an exact date on when the article was printed but the link suggests 2016.
I wonder how these numbers compare to the 2019 wedges in distance??


For a player who say hits his wedge 140 and his drive 300, every par 4 under 440 that is NOT tree lined is Driver / Wedge.


Personally I hit my wedge 150 but I'll use a friend as an example. He is retired from the MLB (so obviously the minority) and he hits his wedge 200 yards. He hits his Driver 330-350. Nothing excites him except for long par 5 holes or courses that force him to hit irons off the tee. Example would be tight tree lined dog legs that he can still cut corners with Irons he never gets to play on open courses.


With technology advancing leaps and bounds so quickly today, how long until we are all playing his game?

200 yard wedge on a standard wedge trajectory? Come on..

Rob, If you haven't noticed this group can be tough and a response like this could warrant some harsh insults so let me help you out...


Rob: 200 yard wedge on a standard trajectory? You know as well as I do your friend is playing the wrong clubs.


Rob, You are most likely correct as I said in () he is  the minority. He plays game improvement irons which are not the best for someone of his athletic ability primarily because of their inconsistency in distance control. When you get a player with higher swing speeds who is big and athletic there is also a bigger gap in distance between clubs. Unfortunately for my friend, he is not good enough for players irons so he's stuck with Driver / Wedge / Putter most of the day in his game improvement irons unless of course we are at a classic course that has not had the resources to redesign their course removing masses of trees and widening fairways. These older courses have maintained their courses as built and trees as original tree plans intended. They are tight and if the tree line comes close enough to the tee my friend is unable to bomb his driver over the trees forcing him to play the course as the original architect intended. Now because the course never had the resources to expand my friend does hit irons off the tee, but hes forced into the landing areas that have been intact from the very beginning.


If you want to learn more about game improvement clubs and just how far they are I suggest you attend a local demo day and talk to the equipment reps. Tour pros today actually calibrate their irons to fit the distances they prefer to play from according to their schedule and courses on it. Tiger woods for example had some issues with his new clubs where he wasn't feeling comfortable with his distances as they were going too long. The only thing that forces pros to accept longer distance is the courses they play on tour. If the average hole on the tour gets longer players are forced out of their comfort zone and embrace some distance changes.


If you ever get the opportunity to catch a tour player on the range during an off day in a relaxed environment or in a friendly home club round, a really cool thing to watch is them hit game improvement irons. It's basically home run derby...

[Rob Marshall]

According to Golf Week, Men average 100-140 yards for their pitching wedge. Tour Pros average 136 yards but it should be noted tour pros are not hitting game improvement irons where many single digit amateurs do.
https://golftips.golfweek.com/far-should-pitching-wedge-shot-go-20163.html
Unfortunately I couldn't find an exact date on when the article was printed but the link suggests 2016.
I wonder how these numbers compare to the 2019 wedges in distance??


For a player who say hits his wedge 140 and his drive 300, every par 4 under 440 that is NOT tree lined is Driver / Wedge.


Personally I hit my wedge 150 but I'll use a friend as an example. He is retired from the MLB (so obviously the minority) and he hits his wedge 200 yards. He hits his Driver 330-350. Nothing excites him except for long par 5 holes or courses that force him to hit irons off the tee. Example would be tight tree lined dog legs that he can still cut corners with Irons he never gets to play on open courses.


With technology advancing leaps and bounds so quickly today, how long until we are all playing his game?

200 yard wedge on a standard wedge trajectory? Come on..

Rob, If you haven't noticed this group can be tough and a response like this could warrant some harsh insults so let me help you out...


Rob: 200 yard wedge on a standard trajectory? You know as well as I do your friend is playing the wrong clubs.


Rob, You are most likely correct as I said in () he is  the minority. He plays game improvement irons which are not the best for someone of his athletic ability primarily because of their inconsistency in distance control. When you get a player with higher swing speeds who is big and athletic there is also a bigger gap in distance between clubs. Unfortunately for my friend, he is not good enough for players irons so he's stuck with Driver / Wedge / Putter most of the day in his game improvement irons unless of course we are at a classic course that has not had the resources to redesign their course removing masses of trees and widening fairways. These older courses have maintained their courses as built and trees as original tree plans intended. They are tight and if the tree line comes close enough to the tee my friend is unable to bomb his driver over the trees forcing him to play the course as the original architect intended. Now because the course never had the resources to expand my friend does hit irons off the tee, but hes forced into the landing areas that have been intact from the very beginning.


If you want to learn more about game improvement clubs and just how far they are I suggest you attend a local demo day and talk to the equipment reps. Tour pros today actually calibrate their irons to fit the distances they prefer to play from according to their schedule and courses on it. Tiger woods for example had some issues with his new clubs where he wasn't feeling comfortable with his distances as they were going too long. The only thing that forces pros to accept longer distance is the courses they play on tour. If the average hole on the tour gets longer players are forced out of their comfort zone and embrace some distance changes.


If you ever get the opportunity to catch a tour player on the range during an off day in a relaxed environment or in a friendly home club round, a really cool thing to watch is them hit game improvement irons. It's basically home run derby...

Too funny. Thanks

[Matthew Rose]

Courses where every hole is the same length and style. All the par threes are 200-220.

So many munis I play feel like carbon copies of the same course, with the same bunkering and routing patterns. Of course a lot of them are done by the same two or three people. Many times they will flip the nines and you won't be able to tell the difference.

I also find so many public courses I play have predictable routing sequences. I can go to a public course I've never seen before, not knowing a thing about it, but I can correctly guess the pars of 80 percent of the holes before I even look at the scorecard. It seems like public courses are all pulled out of the same formula. The first hole will always be a par 4, the second hole will almost always be a par 5, the first par 3 will be either #3 or #4. Both nines will finish either 5-4-3-4 or 5-3-4.

It isn't really an important thing, but tor some reason I find it annoying, I guess only because it feels like I've seen it everywhere.

[Garland Bayley]

If so many of you find golf so dull much of the time, why don't you just give it up and perhaps take up hockey?

I am of the Huckaby ilk. I would play golf on a parking lot if need be. And, what's wrong with playing super long courses? You get the opportunity to hit the ball more often. Don't you like hitting the ball? If you don't, why would you ever go torture yourself at a driving range?

Do you find pickup basketball games dull when they are played on a driveway, and you can't admire the fine hardwood floor and the wood grain?

Do you find pickup basketball games dull if you only have metal backboards, and not glass ones?

Sure there are fine courses that can be savored, but golf is never dull! If you are searching for your ball, then you are not golfing, and that is dull!

[Thomas Dai]

Amazing how threads evolve! Some perceptive on-track points though.


Dull golf doesn't have to be cheap, it can be expensive, very expensive. Nor does it necessarily relate to distance, although it can. For most amateur players golf is a hobby, a leisure activity, a social pastime. If your hobby, your leisure activity, your social pastime isn't fun, then why do it?


Enjoyable or dull? -


Looking for lost balls?
Slow play?
Predictable holes?
Forced carries?
Uphill walks?
Constant runway tees?
Fancy, contrived course features?
Dress codes?
Having to park your buggy/cart on a path and walk across the fairway to your ball?


What are the aspects (not the quality of your own play!) that reduce the fun, that make the game dull, that effectively put you off the game? That might make you want to say "sod it" and walk in mid-round? That might make you even want to give the game up entirely?


atb

[Mark_Fine]

Can’t think of a single course where I didn’t find something interesting.  No such thing as dull golf in my opinion although I did once watch a buddy make five birdies in a row against me and that started to get old fast      

[Michael Felton]

I played a course down in South Carolina one time that was pretty dull. It was endless doglegs with bunkers on the outside corner to aim at and with trees pinching the tee shots. It didn't help that I didn't play particularly well, but still. When I finished the round, you could have dropped me on any of about 9 tees and I wouldn't be able to tell you which hole it was.


Individual things I find boring are long par 5s that I can't reach where the second shot is just hit it further down the fairway. When there's no decision to make on your layup, I find that pretty dull.


Lastly, I can't stand golf courses that have houses in my landing area. I feel enough pressure on myself when I just have to worry about my penalty strokes. When there's the threat of smashing someone's living room window as well, that's too much.

[Peter Pallotta]

Never truly realized how important firm fairways were to enjoyable golf until this (very wet) spring, with every course I play at least (ie at best) mushy underfoot, and every shot literally sticking in place exactly where it lands. Plato himself could design the platonic ideal of a great golf course just chock full of brilliant golf course architecture and it would still be a dull experience in these conditions. Conversely, architect Joe D Dull could slap down the dullest of his dull ideas for 18 straight holes, but if the ball ran out after it hit the fairway or green it would still be just fine.

[JMEvensky]

Never truly realized how important firm fairways were to enjoyable golf until this (very wet) spring, with every course I play at least (ie at best) mushy underfoot, and every shot literally sticking in place exactly where it lands. Plato himself could design the platonic ideal of a great golf course just chock full of brilliant golf course architecture and it would still be a dull experience in these conditions. Conversely, architect Joe D Dull could slap down the dullest of his dull ideas for 18 straight holes, but if the ball ran out after it hit the fairway or green it would still be just fine.

I agree. For me,the dullness would be more maintenance related.

[Sean_A]

Dull golf comes in many forms. For me it usually comes down to lack of variety and lack of opportunities to find balls and attempt exciting shots.  Course conditions can certainly enhance or detract from the experience, but if a course relies on a fairly high level of conditioning something is amiss with the design.

Ciao

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