Very strange moment for me..

[John Emerson]

At this moment im sitting in my Airbnb one street over from St.Andrews University, and I’m on day 7 of 10 day and 11 rounds of golf in Scotland.  As of today I’ve played Prestwick twice, North Berwick, TOC, Castle course, Kilspindie, Crail (balcomie), Kingsbarns, and Carnoustie.  Cruden Bay tomorrow and New Course Saturday.  Prestwick, TOC, and Kilspindie have been my favorites to this point.  So the other 3 in my group loved Kingsbarns and castle course.  Is it weird or blasphemous that I could not care less to ever play either one of those ever again?  Where they amazing??  Absolutely stunning!!!  The walks between green and tee are awful and I was completely turned off.  It had a feeling of “Ive seen something like this in the USA” to it imho.  Anyway, I have had the trip of a lifetime, but I feel strange or, even a bit dirty not ever wanting to return to courses many consider some of the best golf has to offer.  Cheers, and thank you Scotland for being such a wonderful thing. 


PS:
Kilspindie and prestwick are amazing members courses!!  If we could only transplant them back the USA we might be onto something.
PSS:
I have so much more to say about golf in Scotland but I’ll save my breath for another day.

[Ally Mcintosh]

John,


I guess Kingsbarns and Castle Course were “built” from not much (by the same shaping team no less) whilst all the others weren’t.


So not surprising you say what you do.


I think Kingsbarns is a great course but I’ve much more desire to play multiple rounds at the others you mention too.

[Lou_Duran]

Kingsbarn and Old Head are favorites for many.  Like the thread lamenting weather apps (and users forgoing golf because of general area forecasts), I have had the narrow tastes of some on this site affect my choice of where I play.  I wonder how much of our perceptions are influenced by the opinions of others and how independent our own opinions are.   

[Jim Sherma]

Kingsbarns is exceptional golf. Easy to feel like it’s not authentic or slumming-chic like you get at other Scottish courses. As far as the course and the shots it asks of you it’s as good as it gets in my opinion.

[Jon Wiggett]

John,


I really like Kingsbarns when I played except the second half of 18 which is a big let down. The castle course is very manufactured and shows this which is jarring compared to much of the golf around it. Both are probably guilty of being over groomed and not low key enough to be authentic Scottish golf. Glad you like Kilspindie which is my all time favourite course.

[Ronald Montesano]

Castle Course not built on linksland, correct? Therefore, how could it have avoided a manufactured innervation?

[Jim Nugent]

Is Castle Course the one Doak gave a zero? 

[Alex Miller]

Haven't played either, but drove by both a couple times on my trip to Scotland.


Did not play Castle Course because we had no desire... didn't play Kingsbarns due to time and economics  . From the pictures I've seen and the impressions I've heard I'm surprised to hear them grouped together.

[John Emerson]

Haven't played either, but drove by both a couple times on my trip to Scotland.


Did not play Castle Course because we had no desire... didn't play Kingsbarns due to time and economics  . From the pictures I've seen and the impressions I've heard I'm surprised to hear them grouped together.

Im not sure quality wise they are the same with Kingsbarns being far superior. Castle course was just not fun to me.  Kingsbarns was a treat.  It’s just not my cup of tea.  I have fallen in love with old school true links courses so either don’t fit the bill for me.  I have found I loathe long walks between greens and tee, so that is huge for me and what I find attractive.


PS The price for KB is steep!  Thankful I didn’t pay rack rate.  So I understand people being turned off by the cost.  I probably wouldn’t pay the full rate either

[Ally Mcintosh]

Haven't played either, but drove by both a couple times on my trip to Scotland.


Did not play Castle Course because we had no desire... didn't play Kingsbarns due to time and economics  . From the pictures I've seen and the impressions I've heard I'm surprised to hear them grouped together.

They are the two most obvious courses to group together in Fife:


They were both completely constructed. The lead shaper was the same on both projects. They are both high budget modern designs from big name designers.


Tom gave the Castle Course a zero to prove a point. But there’s a lot to admire about the course and I enjoy playing it. Kingsbarns is better - and less contrived - certainly. It also has better soil. But the courses are from the same stable.


Still, give me constant golf on the East Neuk four (Elie, Leven, Lundin, Crail Balcomie) and I’d be happy never to play either again.

[John Emerson]

Haven't played either, but drove by both a couple times on my trip to Scotland.


Did not play Castle Course because we had no desire... didn't play Kingsbarns due to time and economics  . From the pictures I've seen and the impressions I've heard I'm surprised to hear them grouped together.

They are the two most obvious courses to group together in Fife:


They were both completely constructed. The lead shaper was the same on both projects. They are both high budget modern designs from big name designers.


Tom gave the Castle Course a zero to prove a point. But there’s a lot to admire about the course and I enjoy playing it. Kingsbarns is better - and less contrived - certainly. It also has better soil. But the courses are from the same stable.


Still, give me constant golf on the East Neuk four (Elie, Leven, Lundin, Crail Balcomie) and I’d be happy never to play either again.

Ally,
Count me in, I agree.

[Ken Moum]

I haven't played either Castle or Kingsbarns, but I did get a tour of Castle before it opened, and I attended one round of the Women's Open there in 2017.


I had no interest in Castle after seeing it in unfinished state, and my view of Kingsbarns was that it might be a fun place to play it "looked" like an American course. 


For someone like me who loves Brora, Kilspindie, Fraserburgh, Dunbar, and several others, those two just don't make me want to go there, especially at the price.


K

[James Brown]

Haven't played either, but drove by both a couple times on my trip to Scotland.


Did not play Castle Course because we had no desire... didn't play Kingsbarns due to time and economics  . From the pictures I've seen and the impressions I've heard I'm surprised to hear them grouped together.

They are the two most obvious courses to group together in Fife:


They were both completely constructed. The lead shaper was the same on both projects. They are both high budget modern designs from big name designers.


Tom gave the Castle Course a zero to prove a point. But there’s a lot to admire about the course and I enjoy playing it. Kingsbarns is better - and less contrived - certainly. It also has better soil. But the courses are from the same stable.


Still, give me constant golf on the East Neuk four (Elie, Leven, Lundin, Crail Balcomie) and I’d be happy never to play either again.

Ally,
Count me in, I agree.

When I took my Dad over there 10 years ago he really loved Castle and I thought it was nothing compared to TOC and New Course and North Berwick.  I suspect for him, it felt like an American course in Scotland.  And what could be better if you lived your prime golf years revering courses like Firestone and TPC courses that host tour events, which was the 80s and 90s for a lot of baby boomers. 

[Ken Moum]

When I took my Dad over there 10 years ago he really loved Castle and I thought it was nothing compared to TOC and New Course and North Berwick.  I suspect for him, it felt like an American course in Scotland.  And what could be better if you lived your prime golf years revering courses like Firestone and TPC courses that host tour events, which was the 80s and 90s for a lot of baby boomers.

I think that's actually the situation.  On my first trip in 2006, it seemed like every American I ran into asked me if I'd played Kingbarns.


I told them all the same thing, "Kingsbarns was built in the 1990s, I haven't gotten out of the 1890s yet."


I went there, and went back because I am fascinated by the roots of golf. The idea that someone would play golf on roughly managed turf without a thought about whether it was "fair" to have to play the ball as it lies feels like the essence of the game to me.


Thinking that way is completely foreign to people here in Topeka Kansas, who somehow believe that only perfect turf allows you to play the ball as it lies.