OT how hard it is to finish

[archie_struthers]

 


We've all been there just at different levels.  Whether it be breaking 100, 80, 70 for the first time its different than most sports in that as you try harder adrenaline isn't your friend. There is no release til you get it in the house, and yesterday we saw it in a golfer at the very top of his game.


The leader is playing great and the wind starts to blow. The fairways now become so hard to hit that it actually became a blessing as the others fell off also. To Koepka's credit he overcame all of this and prevailed. Hats off to Brooks.




p.s.   kudos to Ricky Elliott too as all his brethren know moments like the back nine is where the golfer needs you the most

[mike_beene]

It is the single most fascinating sport to see how pressure affects people. True reality TV viewers.

[archie_struthers]

 
'
C'mon guys aren't there more of you out there who played sports with a modicum of success and now struggle to achieve similar results with our favorite pastime. I know its harder for me than the other sports in that you pretty much could tell when someone couldn't cover you or vice versa. In the latter situation you might get help from one of your mates or try to do something using your smarts to overcome the physical advantage.


Sure golf is an individual sport so its different. Nothing like it for the need for both power and precision. However when you see someone who is on a roll like Koepka palpably struggling to control his mental acuity it gives me pause.


No amount of muscle memory or routine can stop it from enveloping you, despite masks to the contrary offered by Doc Rotella et al. Perhaps a detachment from the score helps but nobody who plays at that level doesn't know how they stand, much like we know when we have a shot at a personal best. That's why caddying was so much fun at times because keeping a player from reaching their"choke point" is a rare skill indeed.


That's why Jack Nicklaus so intrigues me  many years after his triumphs. I never remember him being flustered, ever.

[JESII]

Are you looking for a "Best Choke" story Arch?

[archie_struthers]

 


S

No but I've got some good ones personal and as an observer!  Such an awful word it is. choke

[Michael Felton]

We've all been there just at different levels.  Whether it be breaking 100, 80, 70 for the first time its different than most sports in that as you try harder adrenaline isn't your friend. There is no release til you get it in the house, and yesterday we saw it in a golfer at the very top of his game.


The leader is playing great and the wind starts to blow. The fairways now become so hard to hit that it actually became a blessing as the others fell off also. To Koepka's credit he overcame all of this and prevailed. Hats off to Brooks.




p.s.   kudos to Ricky Elliott too as all his brethren know moments like the back nine is where the golfer needs you the most

Absolutely. You start to think about it and you tighten up just a little bit. That sneaky thought like "oh don't miss this one left" pops into your head in your backswing and here we go. You have to just take each shot as it comes. Easy to say, not so easy to do. Koepka's wobble was very surprising to me. He's been so solid with the lead in his other majors. I never thought he'd do that, but he surely did. Fair play to him leveling himself off. The guy has guts.

[Ian Galbraith]

In most other sports as the crunch moments arrive there is often a physical barrier or at least exertion to be pushed through which helps with focussing on the necessary. With golf that is rarely present and you even have time between shots for the wee demons to whisper in your ear. While not unique it certainly rewards a different mental mindset than many other sports.

[Thomas Dai]

There is a story about the legendary Aussie cricketer Keith ‘Nugget’ Miller.
During WWII he had been a night-fighter pilot with the RAF.
Later in life, after completing a major innings in a Test Match for Australia, he was asked how he coped with the pressure of playing international cricket.
Millers reply was along the lines of “ Mate, playing international cricket for Australia isn’t pressure. Pressures when you’ve got a Messerschmitt chasing your arse!”.
Atb

[archie_struthers]

 


Still stuck on how good Nicklaus was under the gun, never even a little rattled. When he won at Augusta in that unforgettable day he just felt it, just went with the Karma. Tiger was harder to get a read on in that he seemed to play angry, so his foot was always on the throat. Of course his finishing record when on the lead is by far the best, crazy in fact.


Thinking what Trevino said about Jack and why he was so hard to beat. " he knows he's better than us, we know he's better than us the problem is he knows we know he's better than us "    sums it up I guess !

[Michael Felton]

Still stuck on how good Nicklaus was under the gun, never even a little rattled. When he won at Augusta in that unforgettable day he just felt it, just went with the Karma. Tiger was harder to get a read on in that he seemed to play angry, so his foot was always on the throat. Of course his finishing record when on the lead is by far the best, crazy in fact.


Thinking what Trevino said about Jack and why he was so hard to beat. " he knows he's better than us, we know he's better than us the problem is he knows we know he's better than us "    sums it up I guess !

I'd wager that Jack would think what Koepka said in the run up to the PGA. That sometimes majors are the easiest ones to win. Half the field will play themselves out of it because of the enormity of what they're doing. I paraphrase, but that's how I remember it

[Ben Sims]

When the pressure is at its highest and the stakes are at their greatest, there is zero substitute for training and experience. Zilch.


If your mind is on the result and not the process, you fail.  I think this is where great golfers separate themselves. They have hit so many balls and repeated a specific process so many times that failure isn’t an option. At least this is how I’d like to imagine it.

[Ken Moum]

S

No but I've got some good ones personal and as an observer!  Such an awful word it is. choke

People who don't like that word are just a little weak, in my view.


IIRC, Tom Watson said said, "Anyone who's never choked has never been in position to win."


Or as an accomplished relative of mine has said, the fact that you're choking is no reason not to win.


In response to your first post, I have long believed that the single most difficult thing to do in golf is win when you're supposed to. It takes a hell of a lot of stick to finish it off.


I love to play tournament golf, despite not being a particularly good player.


Only a couple of times have I entered final holes with a lead, knowing that all I had to do to win the tournament was finish. One time I choked like a dog and ended up missing a playoff by one shot. The other time I made several pars and ended up winning the event.


The difficulties I had are largely why I love watching major championships. They reveal things about the players that you can't find anywhere else.


K

[Michael Felton]

Ken - great post.

From my own perspective, when I've felt like I should win something, because I thought I was the best player in the field or the better player in a match, I've found it much easier to keep going and shoot a lower number than when I felt like I shouldn't win or others in the field were better players than me. That doesn't mean that's the way it always went, but frequently it wound up going in the direction I thought of.

[Tom_Doak]

Still stuck on how good Nicklaus was under the gun, never even a little rattled.

Nicklaus choked at Cherry Hills in 1960, playing with Hogan who said afterward that Jack should have won the tournament by 3-4 shots.  Somehow he managed to take his lesson from that and never get flustered again - quite a good lesson to learn when you are 20!

[Matthew Rose]

I felt it even at very low level events.

My first high school match was a disaster; I rinsed three balls on a par three right in front of my coach, made a 9, shot a million and played the back nine with an excruciating migraine headache.

The first time I ever broke 80 was also in competition; all I needed was a double bogey on the last hole. I almost missed the ball completely off the tee and hit a rope hook into some trees about 100 yards down the fairway. I ended up making 6 but to this day I can't remember any shot I hit after that. I only remember the tee shot and then not really enjoying it for quite awhile afterwards; I was in a bit of shock for the last few holes as I'd made a hole-in-one on the 13th and nearly holed out a wedge shot for an eagle three holes later.

Tournament golf just changes everything, even at the most basic levels. For years, I never came close to my handicap in competition of any kind. The only events I've ever had success in as a player were scrambles, which obviously removes a ton of the pressure.

[Thomas Dai]

Still stuck on how good Nicklaus was under the gun, never even a little rattled.

Nicklaus choked at Cherry Hills in 1960, playing with Hogan who said afterward that Jack should have won the tournament by 3-4 shots.  Somehow he managed to take his lesson from that and never get flustered again - quite a good lesson to learn when you are 20!

JN has apparently said a few times that he regrets The Open at Royal Lytham in 1963, feeling he threw that one away.

I recalling hearing or reading a great piece of mental management/course management of JN's which went along the lines of "If I could pull a shot off 80% of the time I'd go for it. The rest of the time I'd take another option". Many a player isn't smart enough or calm enough to pursue such an approach though, even more so over 72-holes.

And there's a BIG difference between a 1 day 18-hole competition and a 72-hole event played over 4 days. In the latter the pressure builds up between rounds as well ..... and builds up even more when your mortgage etc is on the line.

atb

[Jim Nugent]

Still stuck on how good Nicklaus was under the gun, never even a little rattled.

Nicklaus choked at Cherry Hills in 1960, playing with Hogan who said afterward that Jack should have won the tournament by 3-4 shots.  Somehow he managed to take his lesson from that and never get flustered again - quite a good lesson to learn when you are 20!

The Hogan quote I have on this is a bit different, though in a key way...

"I played with a kid (Nicklaus) today who could have won this by five, if he knew what he was doing."

So not that Jack choked, but that he didn't quite have the experience.  It didn't take him long to get it. 

[jeffwarne]

Jack was a great driver.
Despite that, he was a very conservative player on shot selection, hitting many 1 irons(today's 3 iron).
He also aimed for the middle of the green most times, unless a wedge
It's much more difficult to choke with that approach.
Today's players have to be much more aggressive week in week out as even Web.com tours are loaded and -20 might not be good enough.
So they will appear to choke more often, but their style of play is by definition more risky. If your ball is travelling 320 yards looking for a 24 yard fairway, you will miss more often, and often end up in trouble-esp in majors.
Jack finished second 19 times in Majors, which coupled with his 20 major wins, shows you he didn't always close the deal when in contention-which he usually was(I still count the US Ams which everybody did till Tiger won 3)
Tiger was just another level with his previous wins always coming from the lead---unprecedented

[John Kavanaugh]

I high school I decided to give tournament tennis a try because I thought that it being a quicker sport than golf it would be less susceptible to a choke. I'll never forget the wounded duck hit to me where all I needed to do was hit an overhead to win the whole deal. I went back to golf the next morning.


This is also why I never try to beat a train and married the first woman that told me she loved me. A choke artist can be successful if you don't play a game before you schedule the next match.

[JMEvensky]

Jack was a great driver.
Despite that, he was a very conservative player on shot selection, hitting many 1 irons(today's 3 iron).
He also aimed for the middle of the green most times, unless a wedge
It's much more difficult to choke with that approach.
Today's players have to be much more aggressive week in week out as even Web.com tours are loaded and -20 might not be good enough.
So they will appear to choke more often, but their style of play is by definition more risky. If your ball is travelling 320 yards looking for a 24 yard fairway, you will miss more often, and often end up in trouble-esp in majors.
Jack finished second 19 times in Majors, which coupled with his 20 major wins, shows you he didn't always close the deal when in contention-which he usually was(I still count the US Ams which everybody did till Tiger won 3)

Tiger was just another level with his previous wins always coming from the lead---unprecedented

I think your point about aggressive play on the Web.com tour is important. I wonder if those players will even know how to play conservatively when necessary.


Regarding Nicklaus, I think he was just the best at keeping his head when others around him were losing theirs. To quote Harry Callahan--a man's gotta know his limitations. JN knew his.

[Peter Pallotta]

Good points/posts
Plus
Arnold Palmer spoke poignantly about the moment he lost it, and how he knew it was never coming back:
The Edge.
An aura of invincibility (outwardly) and a supreme self confidence, bordering on a sense of Destiny (inwardly).
A feeling, a knowing: 'This is my time/moment/tournament'.
Most remarkable of all to me about JN? His 'time' lasted almost 25 years!

[John Kavanaugh]

For us normal people we lose the ability to put ourselves in a position to choke first. This is one reason that I love uber penal golf. When skill trumps emotion even the most fragile of us can win simply by being the last man standing.

[JLahrman]

Thinking what Trevino said about Jack and why he was so hard to beat. " he knows he's better than us, we know he's better than us the problem is he knows we know he's better than us "    sums it up I guess !

I thought it was Weiskopf who actually said that, though I could be wrong.

[mike_beene]

I can choke big time on the range trying to impress my teacher or if he comes up when I am about to hit a shot on course. If one of the touring pros drives up when I am about to hit I freak out a little. Not sure why, they see worse than me all the time.

[Pat Burke]

I could write way too long a post....




The players I saw play close to their best for a good period of time, not just a good tournament here and there,
Were in the moment all the time, and had incredible focus on every task, every shot...everything.


Great players have one focused voice all the time


Guys like me have a committee in their head