Would the PGA Be a better tournament if the fairways were wider?

[Jason Topp]

A common criticism of the Bethpage setup is that the fairways have been narrowed too much.  I agree for a course hosting a wide range of golfer.


For a PGA Championship, however, I don't know.  Players are hitting driver and the setup rewards both length and accuracy.  How do you think the tournament would be different with wide fairways?  Would it be a better tournament?

[jeffwarne]

A common criticism of the Bethpage setup is that the fairways have been narrowed too much.  I agree for a course hosting a wide range of golfer.


For a PGA Championship, however, I don't know.  Players are hitting driver and the setup rewards both length and accuracy.  How do you think the tournament would be different with wide fairways?  Would it be a better tournament?

I just left there.
The setup is perfect for a PGA or a US Open(unlike what we actually see in a US Open).
The course played great-(the wind was howling out there)and I agree the fairway wdiths tested the best players in the world appropriately-good driving(with an actual driver) was rewarded
The problems for daily play at BB began when the Bethpage operators decided to leave the fairways the same width post the 2002 US Open.....
Silly-and a course where simply mowing lines would improve it dramatically for daily play.


You want a "test"? Go to any course and take any drive more than 12 yards from the cnterline and drop it into the lushest rough you can find-then if your second shot doesn't carry to the green place it in the thickest rough you can find near where your ball initially hit.If it does hit the green and roll over-drop it again in the thickest rough you can find.
Rinse and repeat.


By the way, the 2019 PGA was flawlessy run, couldn't have been smoother logistically.
The two US Opens I attended there were the worst sporting events I ever attended from an "organizational" standpoint.
I lifted my 9 year old twins over the fence after waiting 2 hours in line for the 2002 US Open(in the rain).
For the PGA,the course was setup pretty much as it is year round, with the greens quite fast and actually alive, and receptive of well struck fairway shots.
I did not hear the name of the setup guy once today, and the course and players were the stars.(no rules, setup or trophy presentation nonsense-did I mention the greens had grass?)
The USGA should seriously consider turning over their professional events to the PGA of America or the PGA Tour.
It's that glaring of a difference.


Congrats to Bethpage and the PGA of America-as well as Brooks Koepka and Rob Labritz(low club pro)

[Terry Lavin]

Labritz gave a quality interview on PGA Tour satellite radio. Well done!

[Mike Sweeney]

For a PGA Championship, however, I don't know.  Players are hitting driver and the setup rewards both length and accuracy.  How do you think the tournament would be different with wide fairways?  Would it be a better tournament?

There are situational widening(s) that I would advocate for, and yes for a PGA or Ryder Cup.


1) The lower fairway on the sixth hole should be wider to entice more of the players to go for that area. The rough should be VERY thick down there.


2) The 15th hole should be wide on the right so that more people go for that green. There is no way to go for that green for the majority out of the rough. From the right side they would be further away.


3) Graduated rough for these insanely talented pros seems reasonable.


All that said, Koepka is just a machine. Sure he had a bad stretch, but he hits his shots like they are dropping from a helicopter. Similar to Tiger in his prime, my guess is only some crazy gal pals can derail him at this point.


Pebble Beach becomes a very interesting tournament as the length brings many pros back into the competition that were never in it this week. Great Major Season so far...

[Wayne_Kozun]

By the way, the 2019 PGA was flawlessy run, couldn't have been smoother logistically.

The one thing they have to get rid of, and this isn't just the PGA's fault, is the degens yelling "Baba booey", etc.  They should have a squad there to toss every one of those losers.

[jeffwarne]

By the way, the 2019 PGA was flawlessy run, couldn't have been smoother logistically.

The one thing they have to get rid of, and this isn't just the PGA's fault, is the degens yelling "Baba booey", etc.  They should have a squad there to toss every one of those losers.

agreed.
Amazing how many just have to think they are a part of the show.
It was more than just "bubba booie"
Plenty of "Tiger" shouts on Sunday, plenty of trashy comments from clueless abrasive fans-as players were playing.
Brooks simply used it as more fuel
New York amplifies it no doubt. but hey when you constantly preach "grow the game" you tend to start to attract knuckleheads as well

[Carl Rogers]

Why is this question even being debated?  The recovery shot is brought back to the game & more of the field is closer to the lead.  The broadcast yesterday was very one dimensional ...... Will Brooks blow it?

[Thomas Dai]

A couple of questions for those more familiar with the site -


A) With the type of grass present and the level of irrigation used would balls landing towards the outside of wider fairways have rolled into the deep gunch?


B) If the fairways had been wider would the shorter hitters (having to hit more club than the longer hitters) have been able to hit the ball long enough and high enough to land and stop approach shots on the greens?


C) Without the rough length grass short of and around the greens would shorter hitters (actually all players) have been able to run more approach shots onto the greens?


Atb

[Peter Pallotta]

On the PGA's livestream of the final group (with Michael Breed & Billy Kratzert) one of them noted, in reference to the minimal green contours and the possibility of making mid-range putts, that the caddies there call it 'No Break Bethpage'.
Which is to say: wider fairways bring into play more angles of approach, but 'preferred angles' seem to lose relevance when hitting to 'no break' greens.

[Sean_A]

Angles are largely irrelevant for the touring pros. At this level, I watch to see great players entertain me. I am not convinced 300+ yard drives, pitch outs from rough and shots from the rough in which angles don't matter is very entertaining or signs of a great course. There should be enough about a course and enough width to allow and encourage great players to hit highly entertaining shots. Unfortunately, entertainment wasn't the first thing which came to mind during my quick stop and peeks at the TV. I wasn't in the least encouraged to invest more time in the event.


Ciao

[Wayne_Kozun]

A couple of questions for those more familiar with the site -


A) With the type of grass present and the level of irrigation used would balls landing towards the outside of wider fairways have rolled into the deep gunch?

Irrigation is almost irrelevant in May in that part of North America as the grass is always lush in the spring. In August that would be a different story.

[cary lichtenstein]

I loved the way the course was setup, it separated the field properly. Tiger missed the cut cuz he doesn't hit it straight enough off the tee and the length kept the driver in his hands so he couldn't hit 3 woods or 2 irons like he loves to. Mickelson made the cut but his 3/4 rounds were awful and look how McIroy came back.


It's a major and you just shouldn't be able to win if you have a glaring weakness

[Pete Lavallee]

It's a major and you just shouldn't be able to win if you have a glaring weakness

Cary,


What if your only glaring weakness is lack of length, should you be excluded from winning a Major because of it?

[Erik J. Barzeski]

What if your only glaring weakness is lack of length, should you be excluded from winning a Major because of it?

Golf is a sport, no? I can’t think of a sport where speed or strength are glaring weaknesses and people still succeed at the highest level.

[Bill Charles]

What if your only glaring weakness is lack of length, should you be excluded from winning a Major because of it?

Golf is a sport, no? I can’t think of a sport where speed or strength are glaring weaknesses and people still succeed at the highest level.

Very dangerous talk right here and exactly why the PGA was such a terrible event. Length and stregnth should not determine a major championship winner. It’s not fair for the golfers who can’t compete as we saw last week.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

Very dangerous talk right here and exactly why the PGA was such a terrible event. Length and stregnth should not determine a major championship winner. It’s not fair for the golfers who can’t compete as we saw last week.

Brooks would (and should) be incredibly offended, as he has more than "length and strength." He has finesse, touch, short game, putting, the ability to shape shots, control trajectory, play different types of shots, etc. He showed this several times in even just the final two rounds at Shinnecock Hills; what likely made the PGA "terrible" to you was that he didn't always have great opportunities to do so.

But "length and strength" (speed/strength) are undeniably an advantage in every sport. And it always has been, too, in golf.

[Bill Charles]

Very dangerous talk right here and exactly why the PGA was such a terrible event. Length and stregnth should not determine a major championship winner. It’s not fair for the golfers who can’t compete as we saw last week.

Brooks would (and should) be incredibly offended, as he has more than "length and strength." He has finesse, touch, short game, putting, the ability to shape shots, control trajectory, play different types of shots, etc. He showed this several times in even just the final two rounds at Shinnecock Hills; what likely made the PGA "terrible" to you was that he didn't always have great opportunities to do so.

But "length and strength" (speed/strength) are undeniably an advantage in every sport. And it always has been, too, in golf.

You are correct it is and always has been an advantage. But that doesn’t mean it should be. Golf Architecture is taking a turn for the better and getting away from this and we should encourage and embrace that. I don’t want to see Brooks win every week just because he’s long.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

You are correct it is and always has been an advantage. But that doesn’t mean it should be.

Stuff like that is where I get off the crazy train. The day speed/strength stops being an advantage in golf is the day golf stops being a sport. Even on a 155-yard hole, one player hitting PW while another player who has to hit 8I or longer is an advantage.

Golf Architecture is taking a turn for the better and getting away from this and we should encourage and embrace that. I don’t want to see Brooks win every week just because he’s long.

Brooks did not win JUST because he's long.

[Pete Lavallee]

Football teams are not composed of 11 350 lb players, nor are basketball teams composed of 5 7 footers. Colonial did a much better job of allowing everyone in the field a chance to win from long hitting Finau to the shorter Na. Could Cory Pavin in his prime have won on this years BB setup?

[Steve Lang]

Let's not forget Pavin having to hit his 4-wood into the 18th at Shinne...  to win the 95 Open, when it was playing as a 450 yd par 4,  over long hitting Norman.... remember watching that...  who would have thought?.    I would have liked to see more than train wrecks at the PGA and width probably would have provided that IMHO...

[Jeff Schley]

You are correct it is and always has been an advantage. But that doesn’t mean it should be.

Stuff like that is where I get off the crazy train. The day speed/strength stops being an advantage in golf is the day golf stops being a sport. Even on a 155-yard hole, one player hitting PW while another player who has to hit 8I or longer is an advantage.

Golf Architecture is taking a turn for the better and getting away from this and we should encourage and embrace that. I don’t want to see Brooks win every week just because he’s long.

Brooks did not win JUST because he's long.

Champions tour golfers are very good ball strikers, but they can't compete on the PGA Tour primarily due to disparity in distance.  Of course some just can't practice (or won't practice) enough as well. Being young, strong, long, maintain your swing speed is what differentiates athletes as they age.

[Kalen Braley]

What if your only glaring weakness is lack of length, should you be excluded from winning a Major because of it?

Golf is a sport, no? I can’t think of a sport where speed or strength are glaring weaknesses and people still succeed at the highest level.

I can....Pitchers in baseball like Greg Maddix or Tim Wakefield....