Pebble Beach rates are too low

[Cal Seifert]

Probably more irksome is knowing that in 1976 you could play PB for $25.00, which should translate into about $120.00 today. Same for a place like Pinehurst, where in '76 you could stay for 2 nights w/meals and 3 rounds of golf, one of which was on the #2 course, for $126.00, the equivalent of approximately $580.00 in 2019 dollars.   


Ouch

In 1980 I paid $105 for a student pass to Leo Bolstad, the U of Minnesota course.  If that price matched the CPI, it would cost $326.  Instead it costs $750.  More than double the inflation-adjusted price.  U.S. golf prices have soared, and not just at elite courses.   

Not just the price to play. $500 drivers that are outdated in a year is equally ridiculous.

[Ian Mackenzie]

"Not just the price to play. $500 drivers that are outdated in a year is equally ridiculous."


(This was said a few responses ago)



That's just not the case.
Yes, there are options to choose from and new models certainly. Just as there are new washer/dryers every year, new cars and new leaf blowers from Black n Decker.


and, if you but into the hype, then you can get caught but the above "marketing trap".


My guess is the average retail golfer (as MK describes it...;-) needs a new driver every 7-10 years.


Want..?...well, that's a different...

[Peter Flory]

I bet that a lot of people at Country Clubs end up paying more than $500 per round for their own course when you add up all their payments and divide by rounds played... especially in northern climates. 

[V. Kmetz]

I bet that a lot of people at Country Clubs end up paying more than $500 per round for their own course when you add up all their payments and divide by rounds played... especially in northern climates.

First, you might be right, but what is a lot of people...out of say 350 members, how many do you think is a lot?


cheers  vk

[JESII]

At a $10,000/yr club, I'd bet half don't pay 20 rounds there...

[JMEvensky]

At a $10,000/yr club, I'd bet half don't pay 20 rounds there...

I suspect you're in the ballpark. The biggest fear most clubs have is their members figure out their cost/round.

[Jim Nugent]

At a $10,000/yr club, I'd bet half don't pay 20 rounds there...

I suspect you're in the ballpark. The biggest fear most clubs have is their members figure out their cost/round.

But isn't golf often only one reason they join?  i.e. they might get other benefits that make it worthwhile.   (edited for formating)

[MKrohn]

Is PB the highest greenfee anywhere?
If not where is and what's the price?
atb

Just have to find where a rich bloke has built a course and lets a few peasants on every now and the.


The Hills in Queenstown NZ is north of $1000 NZD, I stopped asking about Tara Iti when combined with the accommodation I was near the $2000 mark. Ellerston in Australia, again owned by a rich guy.


At least PB has some history, I'm happy to have played it once (we didn't stay) but likely never will again.

[Mark Chaplin]

I’m told Scottsdale National is $1500 unaccompanied

[V. Kmetz]

At a $10,000/yr club, I'd bet half don't pay 20 rounds there...

I suspect you're in the ballpark. The biggest fear most clubs have is their members figure out their cost/round.

Well if you'll permit me, I was in a role where I used to survey, collect, analyze and report some of these numbers from clubs in the Westchester Golf Association portion of the MGA... and to that I add a lifetime's worth of anecdotal color.


First understand that the West./MGA is like Disneyland, club life in this district is hardly matched, but faintly mimicked by the golfing areas of Philly, Chicago, Boston and South Florida, but no where (maybe Dubai or UAE) is club life more expensive than in the district I'm talking about.


Out of 15 diverse clubs surveyed in 2013:

• The average initiation was $42,500* (mostly clubs permit it to be paid in three yearly installments)
• The average dues/expected assessments were $14,800 per year
• The average monthly dining minimums added up to $2500 per year
• The average spent on carts/caddies/guest green fees by a primary member was $6500 per year
• The average number of "full golf/full vote" primary memberships = 230
• The average number of yearly rounds = 17,700***
• The average number of guest rounds = 2750***
• The average number of golf rounds played by/billed to a primary member = 63.5

So if you're in the first three years of a club (and you're still paying off initiation of 14k per year) you are spending:


38,000 for 63.5 rounds of golf, which is almost $600 a round


After the first three years, you go down to:


24,000 for 63.5 rounds of golf, and you're at $377 per round...


Now what these two figures don't represent is that you are enjoying the club in a way that you cannot enjoy Pebble or anywhere else... you come and go as you please 6 days a week 18 hours a day, eat just about anything you want, have breakfast and go to work...or go to work and spend all late-afternoon -evening hitting balls...watch a game in the bar and the meter isn't really running til you go over the monthly minimum... go work out...send your kids and wife to the pool or sports camp...play tennis...entertain clients...set up an outing for a cause... play other clubs and see other courses in inter-club competition.... have a locker...and the ability to custom order stuff from the pro (we did not include lessons/golf shop spending in one's total cost)


AND you're per visit goes a bit lower if you do use the place fully even more...


but it's still about 400 dollars a visit...


cheers  vk

[JESII]

VK,


Great intel, thank you.


I’m not sure, but are saying JME and I are right or wrong?  Ha


Serious questions on the data;


Did these clubs break out rounds by member category? Or simply member and guest?  This would skew your 63.3 average member round number down if partial member numbers are counted in the total but only divided by full member count.


If the average is 63.3, do you have a sense for the median number?  Would have to be 50ish I’d guess which would take the cost/round up by 20%, right?


Good stuff!

[Matthew Petersen]

Whistling Straits no longer straight publishes their rates (and they vary throughout the year), but Golf.com reports that they "start" at $410 plus $65 for the required caddie (plus the gratuity on top of that).


I've never played WS but I kinda think that makes Pebble seem reasonable.

[V. Kmetz]

I’m not sure, but are saying JME and I are right or wrong?  Ha
I'm not sure either, but being the topic was Pebble's 500+, it was just contextual

Serious questions on the data;

Did these clubs break out rounds by member category? Or simply member and guest?  This would skew your 63.3 average member round number down if partial member numbers are counted in the total but only divided by full member count.

Because each club and each membership situation is so different, we couldn't do that, but we did survey another stat...average number of bags in the bag room (which was 445)... this is a good number for knowing just how many people have playing privileges (of any sort) at the course...when THAT 445 number is divided by the member rounds, you get an average of 34.5 rounds per ANY class of member... of course that sheds little empirical light on what you're asking, because there are bags in a bag room that play twice a year, 4 times a year, 8 times a year and others that play 99 times a year... and there have been people who play over 120 rounds in a 150 day season....and I knew a guy who was all about that he played (between AZ and CT) 350 rounds the previous annum.

If the average is 63.3, do you have a sense for the median number?  Would have to be 50ish I’d guess which would take the cost/round up by 20%, right?


I only have a sense for three clubs (not all 15 in the older survey)...and honestly 70-75 sounds right, when I think about most guys... there's 78 days worth of 3-day weekends (Fri, Sat, Sun) in a 6 month season...an average male club member will play about 45-50 of those days + his wife will play on 20 weekdays and they'll play together a dozen or so times...but every place is different in those nuances...


Good stuff!

[JMEvensky]

VK, Westchester County private clubs might not be the best example. I don't mean to gainsay your stats, I just don't know of many other areas with that concentration of money,hard core golfers,and aspirational clubs.


Also anecdotally, in my part of the world, of those clubs with which I have some familiarity, there are certainly 3X/week-100 rounds/year members. But they're a rarity. The average rounds/year/member has fallen into the mid-30's.


And I'm in a area with a 9 month golf season.

[V. Kmetz]

VK, Westchester County private clubs might not be the best example. I don't mean to gainsay your stats, I just don't know of many other areas with that concentration of money,hard core golfers,and aspirational clubs.
Absolutely, I prefaced all with that very disclaimer... it is Fantasyland, with Fantasyland prices but that's what Pebble is/has become...for a day...(and don't forget, 10-15% of them are supporting both a second area club, and 30-35% of them are supporting a Florida club)...

[Peter Pallotta]

Q:
With the top line MGA courses (and Pebble & Bandon etc) thriving while many modest courses and mom & pop operations across the country struggle to turn a profit, when does Fantasy Land get rebranded as the New Reality?

[Tim Leahy]

The other big difference between Bandon and Pebble is Pebble is open to a bigger market by allowing cart play. With my bad knees I couldn't play Bandon no matter what they charge.

[Matthew Petersen]

The other big difference between Bandon and Pebble is Pebble is open to a bigger market by allowing cart play. With my bad knees I couldn't play Bandon no matter what they charge.

It's cart play but it's path only and the paths are well away from the fairways. I certainly understand someone with a bad back or knees would stay away from a walking only resort like Bandon or SV, but in truth you're in for a long and painful day walking back and forth to the cart at Pebble, as well.