Pebble Beach rates are too low

[Kalen Braley]

I get sticker shock too seeing Pebbles $500 rates but given golf isn't exactly a necessity of life like shelter, food, access to healthcare, etc. is that really unreasonable?

The question to me becomes given most golf courses (e.g. munis, local ones) are in fact reasonably affordable does that mean top notch courses should be same?  To compare similar items in terms of purchasing limited access, should staying in the finest hotels of the world, or top end dining, or flying International First Class be affordable?  There are myriads of other very acceptable options....

Or even expanding the scope, should the finest clothing, automobiles, or jewelry be affordable to most?  I'm struggling to see why....

[Terry Lavin]

I've never thought Mike Keiser was interested in driving down the cost of golf...because I've never seen any evidence of that...but isn't this statement simply a reference to basic economics?

Yep. That’s my take on the quote.

[PCCraig]

I've never thought Mike Keiser was interested in driving down the cost of golf...because I've never seen any evidence of that...but isn't this statement simply a reference to basic economics?

Yep. That’s my take on the quote.

$200+ for Mammoth Dunes makes $500 for Pebble Beach seem like the bargain of the century.

[Tim Martin]

I’m not as bothered by the $500 rate as I am by the gun to your head requirement of staying on site.

[Thomas Dai]

Is PB the highest greenfee anywhere?
If not where is and what's the price?
atb

[Peter Pallotta]

Yeah, Tim, but apparently that's just 'simple economics'. Like the credit card companies charging 21% interest -- except that in the '50s, when the feds were trying to make the mafia look bad, they used to call it 'loan sharking'...
Maybe, to borrow a line from Joe Pesci, they were just 'prejudiced against Italians'. Who would've guessed back then that 'racketeering' would become Microsoft and 'running numbers' would morph into state run lotteries...
Words & phrases are like that, I suppose. 'Golf as it was meant to be played' I thought meant something much different than what it today seems to mean

[JESII]

Peter - what should Pebble Beach cost?

[Peter Pallotta]

Jim - It should cost however much they can get enough people to pay in order to satisfy however much profit they need or want to make...just like at Bandon.
As Sean says, luckily there are (currently) other options for the budget minded golfers looking to play quality golf courses
P

[JESII]

The Pebble value conversation is always a funny one to me because I wouldn't pay $500 to play anywhere at the moment...but if I was thinking about playing Pebble the $500 would be somewhere around 5% to 10% of the trip...and they know that.

[Tim Martin]

Jim - It should cost however much they can get enough people to pay in order to satisfy however much profit they need or want to make...just like at Bandon.
As Sean says, luckily there are (currently) other options for the budget minded golfers looking to play quality golf courses
P

Peter-I haven’t played it and I think I would be more inclined to head down to Pasatiempo which is a course I have always wanted to play and stay where I want. I’m sure The Lodge is fantastic but I would feel like I was getting my pants pulled down for $1000 plus a night. Just sayin.

[Emile Bonfiglio]

Is PB the highest greenfee anywhere?
If not where is and what's the price?
atb

TPC Sawgrass is north of $550 with mandatory caddies, Pinehurst #2 is there too

[Rees Milikin]

Golf is a business as much as it is a sport or hobby.... seemingly at private clubs as well where the business side of things should be neglible. I am never going to play Pebble because it costs too much (and it is just a golf course), but that is true of a great many things in life. I doubt I will ever make it to Bandon and as time rolls on prices continue to rise.  In a way, the five course set up makes me going even less likely.

It's a big world with plenty of interesting and excellent courses to be had at lower budgets. Don't worry about what you can't have and focus on what you do have. Life is good.

Ciao

Amen to that.  Worrying about what others have instead of focusing on what you do have is a sure fire way to live a life of jealousy and resentment.  Life’s not fair, but if you call golf one of your hobbies, then you are doing better than most of the world that can’t afford it. 

[Keith Phillips]

I always use Pebble as the poster child for the cost of golf vs. skiing - if you buy ahead you can practically get a season pass to Vail & Ass. for the price of 18 + caddie at Pebble.  I'm a free market guy so don't begrudge the Pebbles or the Bandons or the finer private clubs (I'm an impoverished member of 2!) for what they charge...but golf sure is expensive!!

[Brock Lynch]

288 pounds to play Kingsbarns in 2019. Play 1 round at Kingsbarns or play Lundin Links (80), Elie (85), & Crail (90)? It comes down to value. What experience is more valuable to you?

[Jon Wiggett]

Golf is a business as much as it is a sport or hobby....

Ciao

Sean,
on the one side you are correct but on the otherside Wrong. Golf is primarily a social occasion for most and a wellbeing (ugh, hate that phrase but it fits) as well. The problem much of golf is facing at the moment is its over commercialisation of the past 30 years.

Jon

I don't have an issue with the commercialization/monetizing of golf.  If not for that I wouldn't have played anywhere near the number of big guns I have.  I welcome the different pricing levels of courses which suit different wallets and interests.  I always have the choice to say no thanks.  Live and let live.  Objectively there is no such thing as golf which is too expensive, the same cannot be said of too cheap.

Ciao

You completely misunderstood or missed the point but never mind 

[JHoulihan]

Unsure of the exact cost if staying for one round only but here are the economics of my Pinehurst trip in September.
567 Golf package (1 night hotel plus one round NOT on course #2)
450 (al a cart round on #2)
56.70 (10% resort fee)
55.28 (9.75 tax)
1128.98 (Total for hotel + 2 rounds)


Thoughts
1. You MUST stay on property to play course #2 or #4. One day stay minimum and two day stay if playing on prime dates/weekends.
2. Could I spend less and upgrade my one round to #2 only...yes. Living in AZ what is my chance to visit this area again in the next 10 years...VERY small.
3. Will this be the best golf trip of my life...unsure. Will I return home happy that I walked and played a course both amateurs and pros have enjoyed for over 100 years...YES.
4. Have I played PB yet. No. Is it OFF the list of courses to play. No. Are there places both cheaper and more expensive to play ahead of it. Yes.


Justin

[Tim_Weiman]

What an era we're in...both in the gross and net personal economy categories... Jesus Christ these numbers... the fact that the tee sheet is full does not speak to  market efficacy, but the insidious choking of wealth distribution/1% disparity... this  is no longer a public course, just a private club without initiation or year-round upkeep....it's as public as a PPV Inuaguration


$500 is nearly 1% of what I make in a year, with no benefits, working all but 4 weeks in a year, sometimes two of the jobs at a time...I will never get to play Pebble; glad I went to a Crosby many moons ago.


And I know he's a golf catalyst and prolly a fair guy...but fuck Mike Keiser and such pronouncements...

V:


Can I say something like “I feel your pain”?


I have played Pebble Beach maybe 5-6 times, but that was long ago and I never paid more than $100. Enjoyed it most the very first time and, honestly, not so much on return visits.


But, your post really takes me half way around the world to Ballybunion, which I first visited back in the 1980s. There I found what might be called socialism, not the “1%”. Local unemployment ran about 45%. The Americans were starting to come and this allowed locals who couldn’t pay the annual dues (200 Irish) to still play like any member who could pay.


I miss that experience far more than playing Pebble Beach.


Hang in there.

[Matthew Petersen]

All I know is that I have played Pebble several times by just calling up a couple of days in advance and asking if I could get a tee time without even being a hotel guest.  I think they haven’t raised the rates for at least 10 years.

The price went from $495, where it had been for some time, to $525 last year and as of 2019 it is $550. And if you are not a resort guest you are also charged the cart fee, whether you're taking a cart or not (this has been the de facto non-resort rate at all PB properties at least since I visited back in 2012 and I don't know how long prior).

[Sven Nilsen]

Pebble was a once in a lifetime trip for me when I went there 20 years ago.


It is amazing to me that there are so many others (even those with rabbits) who think of it the same way that it is enough to keep their tee sheets full.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Probably more irksome is knowing that in 1976 you could play PB for $25.00, which should translate into about $120.00 today. Same for a place like Pinehurst, where in '76 you could stay for 2 nights w/meals and 3 rounds of golf, one of which was on the #2 course, for $126.00, the equivalent of approximately $580.00 in 2019 dollars.   


Ouch

[Jeff Schley]

Unaccompanied rates at private clubs can be pretty obscene and will refrain from mentioning any here, but many of you know that the mandatory caddies / forecaddie / cart fee can bring it well over the PB mark.  Then again you are paying for access.

[David_Tepper]

I would be curious to know what percentage of the green fees for the rounds played at Pebble are written off as a business "client entertainment" expense of some sort. My guess is the number there is much higher than at a place like Bandon.

Paying the green fee at Pebble is easier to do when you are passing the bill on to your shareholders.  

[Ian Mackenzie]

Is PB the highest greenfee anywhere?
If not where is and what's the price?
atb

TD - i think that distinction belongs to Shadow Creek in Vegas. I think it's $750.


May include a "happy ending" massage, too...;-)

[Ian Mackenzie]

One round at Pebble + a caddy = the annual dues at "a top 10 course in the world" in the UK.


"...aint that America..."

[Jim Nugent]

Probably more irksome is knowing that in 1976 you could play PB for $25.00, which should translate into about $120.00 today. Same for a place like Pinehurst, where in '76 you could stay for 2 nights w/meals and 3 rounds of golf, one of which was on the #2 course, for $126.00, the equivalent of approximately $580.00 in 2019 dollars.   


Ouch

In 1980 I paid $105 for a student pass to Leo Bolstad, the U of Minnesota course.  If that price matched the CPI, it would cost $326.  Instead it costs $750.  More than double the inflation-adjusted price.  U.S. golf prices have soared, and not just at elite courses.