Trinity Forest is not a good course for a PGA Tour event

[Jeff_Brauer]

For some reason, I have no burning desire to see it. I saw parts of it during construction, never been there for the tourney or to play.



TD (or anyone who has watched the tournament), I guess the question on the reverse slope greens is which, if any give the pros problems?  At the scores they are shooting, it seems not many, although the rains probably affect that somewhat.  I ask because they kill members and public play, so if they don't work against pros to raise challenge/scores, anything more than limited use would seem unwise, at least to me.


I have built a few Redans and a few more full reverse slope greens.  Most good players just play for even more spin.  It seems to me, the best use is on ultra long par 4 or shorter par 5 where it forces players to figure the roll out with a lower lofted, less spin club.  Any other ideas?

[Jim Hoak]

I know this isn’t the thrust of this post and site, but Trinity Forest is an important golf course for reasons other than a Tour site:
It is aiding development in a blighted, neglected area of town.  East Lake in Atlanta gets praised for that, but people don’t offer similar praise for TF.
It replaces a city dump that needed to be cleaned up.
It serves as a college course for the SMU golf teams.
It offers another golf option for DFW, that has grown so rapidly it is under-golf coursed.
There is a public play element to the course.  It has a First Tee course and Clubhouse adjacent to it.
It replaces a Tour course that was among the least respected by Tour players.
It is a terrific architectural contribution by C/C on a less than ideal site.
So, there’s more to this course maybe than first appears!  There are many winners at Trinity Forest!

[Jeff Schley]

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It offers another golf option for DFW, that has grown so rapidly it is under-golf coursed.
There is a public play element to the course.  It has a First Tee course and Clubhouse adjacent to it.
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Is golf in DFW really that thin?  I lived in Wichita Falls for a year, but would think Houston would be more sparse since I think it is growing rapidly as well more so than DFW.

[David Restrepo]

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Is golf in DFW really that thin?  I lived in Wichita Falls for a year, but would think Houston would be more sparse since I think it is growing rapidly as well more so than DFW.

Didn't mind playing Wichita Falls CC a few years back. Great hospitality too.

[mike_beene]

Not to put words in Jim's mouth, but golf seems thin in central area of Dallas. I think any of the 5 or 6 clubs located in Dallas proper have muti-year waiting lists. There is not any daily fee other than city courses. If you don't want those two options, you are driving 45 minutes. Maybe I am missing something. If the club is closed, there is no driving range other than TopGolf.

[Mike Nuzzo]

although the rains probably affect that somewhat. I ask because they kill members and public play, so if they don't work against pros to raise challenge/scores, anything more than limited use would seem unwise, at least to me.

Weather/conditions are the biggest factor when it comes to scoring.
Some courses are more interesting than others.
The scores don't change, only the strategy and the players who can capitalize on the strategy.

[Randy Thompson]

Not to put words in Jim's mouth, but golf seems thin in central area of Dallas. I think any of the 5 or 6 clubs located in Dallas proper have muti-year waiting lists. There is not any daily fee other than city courses. If you don't want those two options, you are driving 45 minutes. Maybe I am missing something. If the club is closed, there is no driving range other than TopGolf.

What about the 36 holes at the airport, Bear Creek, is that not daily fee anymore? There are lots in the area that are not defined as public but accept outside daily fee´s, especially during the week.

[Anthony Butler]

The course played soft from the rain. Doesn't matter what course it is... For pros, Soft = Darts

It seemed like the wind never got over 10 mph the whole week, which typically causes low scores when professional tournaments are at wide-open, links type courses e.g. St. Andrews 2000, Hoylake 2014.

[mike_beene]

Randy, you are thinking of Bear Creek. I haven't been there in forever but it used to be fun. It is one I forgot. Still it is over 30 minutes away. You have to really plan to get a tee time, go out there, etc. Still, it is closer than most.

[Lou_Duran]

Not to put words in Jim's mouth, but golf seems thin in central area of Dallas. I think any of the 5 or 6 clubs located in Dallas proper have muti-year waiting lists. There is not any daily fee other than city courses. If you don't want those two options, you are driving 45 minutes. Maybe I am missing something. If the club is closed, there is no driving range other than TopGolf.

Mike,


We are what, 20 miles apart but must live in different worlds.  Move up north a few miles and you will have all the golf you can handle.  I don't share the view that we're under-supplied, and that's even before the PGA breaks ground on 45 holes.  Closer to home, I am sure that Trinity Forest and Maridoe would look favorably at your application. I just officiated a qualifier yesterday at Craig Ranch and ClubCorp is bringing that course up to the standard it deserves.

Cedar Crest, Stevens Park, Tennison-West, Frisco Lakes, The Tribute are five very enjoyable daily fees within a shortish drive.  Add Texas Rangers GC, Rockwood, and Texas Star in Tarrant County and a once-a-week golfer could be quite happy without having to break the bank.

[Jim Hoak]

Lou, maybe it does matter where you are located.  And, maybe I was primarily talking about private or semi-private Clubs, like Trinity Forest which was the focus of this discussion.  The Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex now has 7.6 million people--4th in the country and closing in on Chicago.  That is about a double over the past 20 years--in fact over the last 8 years, over one million people net moved here.  And during that time, private golf club opportunities have barely moved.  As Mike said, almost all the private clubs here have waiting lists--got to be among the healthiest golf club environments anywhere in the US.  It was nice to add Trinity Forest to that list.

[mike_beene]

Lou, I will remain a lowly one club golfer. Fortunately my fellow members still take me to their other places. I do get wandering Trinity Forest thoughts which my wife equates with some sort of cheating on her beloved Lakewood even if we kept both memberships. I am really thankful to be where I am. After over 25 years it becomes family.

[mike_beene]

Lou, Gentle Creek,where you have kindly hosted me and is among my favorites with its width is more like an hours drive. It is frustrating that I won't get to play much with nephews who see a potential 10 year wait as a no go. People are living and playing longer.

[Lou_Duran]

Yes, golf is real estate intensive and we all know the most basic rule- location³.  The probability that an exclusive course will be built close to where you and your nephews live probably approaches zero.  Perhaps they should put their applications in at your club and in the meantime join Dallas National, Maridoe or TF where they might be able to waltz right on in.  You're probably less than a half an hour from these, and though you may prefer your beloved home club, the aforementioned have fantastic courses and much better modern practice facilities. 


As you know, there is a lot of money in Dallas and the pecking order of clubs is pretty well-known.  I am told by a new member at my favorite club (the one I would want to join if they would accept me) that it has advised prospective members just getting on the waiting list to consider other options and removing their names.  So long as the economy doesn't experience a 2008-like crash, I doubt that the demand at the top five or so clubs would change if a new upscale golf course is built in the infield.


But if we really want to talk turkey, I know of a young man who checks all the right boxes but one (legacy) that put his application in at the hardest ticket in town a few years ago.  Unless he lobbies hard and smartly, he will likely remain on the waiting list to become a social member for 10-20 years.  The course itself is pedestrian, but the prestige of the club and its social network are unrivaled.  It takes decades for a new club to build its cache (I suspect that Dallas National will arrive one day).  From my standpoint, if golf is the focus, there are plenty of excellent options in the Metroplex.


And BTW, when I was a member of Great Southwest, we had members from all over north Texas.  Driving 30-60 minutes didn't seem to be a big burden (I am 25 minutes from Gentle Creek and whine about it being too far to go practice or play 9).  Mike, we are blessed to live in north Texas.  Oh, and it takes Alex about :35 to get from his house near the Tollway to the parking lot at GC, sometimes less.  You can come up any time (we had five walkers yesterday finish in 3:30).

[Lou_Duran]

Mike- one more thing about Lakewood, I've always felt welcomed there, which has not always been the case at some of the other exclusive clubs in Dallas.  Your sentiments about the club being family were repeated by my wife's former boss who retired a few years back and re-joined.  Like with Cheers, there is a lot to be said for being able to go to a place where you belong.  Colonial CC in FW is also such a place.  Unfortunately, with a fixed footprint, there's a physical limit to how many people are extended the invitation.  Curious how the laws of supply and demand also apply to golf.  What do you think of the idea of a fast-track program where if a prospect is willing to  pay 2X+ of the current initiation fee, he jumps to the front of the line?   I would not be a candidate, but I suspect that there would be quite a few takers in Dallas.

[mike_beene]

Lou:
Not sure what I think of it but I believe a 3 times initiation will get you on the short list at what I think is the sandy soiled place you reference you like as well as my place (although I don't have any direct knowledge . As a person who lives in first world poverty, I don't like the system but I suppose a club can do what it wants. I was also remiss in failing to mention the DAC. That is a great deal and has practice facilities more like newer clubs. We are some lucky people.

[Lou_Duran]

Mike,


If I move down to Dallas, DAC is where I might end up.  I am not a big fan of the courses- they're certainly more than I need, but I've become fond of the aesthetic promulgated by this site.  Though the bones of the courses are Plummer's, Nicklaus has his fingerprints all over them.  At this point in my life, walking and getting around in a reasonable amount of time are key.  I am unsure that this is possible at DAC, an excellent club for competitive golfers.


Regarding the 2X question, I was not referring to a particular club.  There seems to be a log jam of various degrees at the five major clubs in Dallas.  While I agree completely with Jim Hoak's praises of TF, to the best of my knowledge it has not relieved the demand for memberships at the Elite Five (my coinage).  The last I heard, Dallas National with the best course in Texas IMO, has but a very short wait list if any.  Maridoe, arguably one of the most difficult courses in the state and among the best financed, is welcoming prospective members.


I am just wondering out loud whether a market-based or bid-asked process might work better for the E5 clubs and and for the folks who value a membership higher than others on the list.  Maybe instead of large assessments for renovations, the existing members would benefit from having willing potential Newbies fund the improvements.  Of course, there could be unintended consequences, maybe legacies would be more difficult, perhaps cultures might clash.  Is it good or bad for a club to be populated by a bunch of IIs and IIIs?  I can see how this might be bucking current trends, but social cohesiveness is extremely important- probably not any Al Czerviks at the aforementioned.       


 

[mike_beene]

We see the world more from the golf perspective. It seems the golf clubs have more space than the country clubs. Are there any members of Maridoe, Dallas National or Trinity Forest who are not also members of one of the country clubs? I am sure there are but I don't know them. I do know that there are a lot of people who have added the golf clubs, so it really doesn't open up the market.