Ohoopee

[Chad Anderson (Tennessee)]

What a treat this Gil Hanse design was today!!!! 


The entire property was impressive and the golf course was great.  I was in and out, so I didn't get the full experience of staying on site, I didn't get to play the Whiskey course, eat lunch, putt at night, sit by the fire pit, etc.  Have to save that for next trip.


The first 8 holes are long.  3 par 5's in the first 8 holes, mixed in with 2 drivable par 4's and 2 par 3's.  The greens are very undulated which led to some fun chip shots or long putts if you missed in the wrong area.


I may be wrong, but I don't recall being able to see the putting green from the teeing area on any hole outside of the par 3's and the drivable par 4's.  Other than that, you were hitting to a landing area and then once you got there, you could see the green.  That doesn't bother me but I know some people like to be able to see where they are going at all times.


In addition to a great golf course, they may have the best logo - an onion.  It's built on an old onion farm.  If you get a chance to play it, you'll have a great time!

[Eric Smith]

In addition to a great golf course, they may have the best logo - an onion.  It's built on an old onion farm.

The resident indigo snakes are also incorporated into the logo:

[jeffwarne]

 That doesn't bother me but I know some people like to be able to see where they are going at all times.

"some people" would sure miss a lot(or I'd say all) of great courses with that ridiculous standard.

[Carson Pilcher]

I too, have played the course and found it fascinating.  It is not a typical "look" you would find in Georgia, but sat well with the land and surroundings.  While I could go on and on....I will not because there are others that can pontificate better than me.  However, I would like to point out two "mounds" that Hanse used that greatly affected the way a hole is played.


First, the little knob/mound fronting the 4th green.  It is a short hole.  Played various ways, but I played it as a 4 iron- wedge.  Simple enough right?  However, he placed a knob fronting the green that obscures the middle of the green and makes the green look much smaller than it actually is.  It also distorts your visual perception causing some trepidation to your relatively easy 80-100 yards shot.  I think it is genius!


Secondly, he has accomplished the same on another short "par 4".  I think it was #14.  It is a short hole where you can drive towards the green over a large bunker and give yourself a straight-forward 50-60 yard pitch up the length of the green.  However, you can play safe off the tee and out to the right with hybrid or 3 wood.  HOWEVER, he has placed a small knob on the right front of the green that makes the second shot extremely difficult to get close. My partner went left off the tee and his 70 yard pitch hit the knob and rolled back onto the fringe.  He was maybe 20 feet from the pin for his third, but was dead.  No way to get it close.  Again, I smiled and thought it was genius.

[Thomas Dai]

Small mounds and (hollows) are features I enjoy seeing on a course. They can have quit an effect on the playability and strategy of playing a hole, particularly near the green but also in the landing or approach shot area. Relative to bunkers I presume they are also easy to construct and maintain.
Back a while I raised a thread on the subject - [size=78%]http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,59775.0.html[/size]
Shame some of the photos have disappeared.
Atb

[Eric Smith]

Small mounds ... are features I enjoy seeing on a course. They can have quit an effect on the playability and strategy of playing a hole, particularly near the green...

Pete Dye placed a brilliant one on the front right of the 9th green at Harbour Town where it propels balls to the back of the green or worse.

[Jeff Schley]

Small mounds ... are features I enjoy seeing on a course. They can have quit an effect on the playability and strategy of playing a hole, particularly near the green...

Pete Dye placed a brilliant one on the front right of the 9th green at Harbour Town where it propels balls to the back of the green or worse.

I don't recall that one and I thought I found all the trouble spots at HT! 
I did have to reload at the turn and bought the cheapest balls they had, which needless to say weren't cheap.

[Ally Mcintosh]

 That doesn't bother me but I know some people like to be able to see where they are going at all times.

"some people" would sure miss a lot(or I'd say all) of great courses with that ridiculous standard.

Yes and no.


I have zero problem with not seeing the green from the tee but there is no doubt that often times, a hole is more attractive if you can see the green from the tee.


In that respect, there are courses where I think too often you only see to the turning point or just beyond. It can be tedious if the majority of holes are like this.

[jeffwarne]

Ally that reminds me of a story...


I was out with the "greens chairman" of a club I worked at
He stood on the tee of a straightaway par 4 and demanded we remove a stand of trees(in a native forest) that obscured his view of the far right pin.
I suggested he tee his ball up on the left side of the tee where the flag was plainly visible.


On Topic-I played Ohoopee last fall.
Loved the course and hope to get back to play the different variations of the layout.
A friend that's a member said it remained very well drained in what was a very rainy winter in Georgia

[Jon Cavalier]

Secondly, he has accomplished the same on another short "par 4".  I think it was #14.  It is a short hole where you can drive towards the green over a large bunker and give yourself a straight-forward 50-60 yard pitch up the length of the green.  However, you can play safe off the tee and out to the right with hybrid or 3 wood.  HOWEVER, he has placed a small knob on the right front of the green that makes the second shot extremely difficult to get close. My partner went left off the tee and his 70 yard pitch hit the knob and rolled back onto the fringe.  He was maybe 20 feet from the pin for his third, but was dead.  No way to get it close.  Again, I smiled and thought it was genius.

Here are a few shots of that knob and that hole.  I too thought it was an absolutely brilliant design for a short par-4, and one great hole among many at the course overall.



View from the tee - you can see how much room you have to bail out left, bringing the greenside knob directly into play on the approach.



Front left greenside view of the knob - a challenging spot.



From the back of the green - you can see here how the green is open and accessible on a line from the tee, and that the knob and green contours can help guide a ball on to the putting surface.  You can also see how narrow the green is.



From the left side of the green - note the rear tier.


Great hole.

[John Blain]

I've been told that there are snakes everywhere on that property and that you really need to watch where you're "stepping?"

[Tom_Doak]

I have zero problem with not seeing the green from the tee but there is no doubt that often times, a hole is more attractive if you can see the green from the tee.

In that respect, there are courses where I think too often you only see to the turning point or just beyond. It can be tedious if the majority of holes are like this.

I agree with that.  I enjoy the occasional blind tee shot over an interesting feature, even several of them in a round, but I dislike holes that just go out and turn a corner blindly.


Has anyone noticed if that is a common thing in Gil's work?  I haven't seen enough of his recent courses to tell whether it's not important to him to see the green from the tee.

[Jon Cavalier]

I have zero problem with not seeing the green from the tee but there is no doubt that often times, a hole is more attractive if you can see the green from the tee.

In that respect, there are courses where I think too often you only see to the turning point or just beyond. It can be tedious if the majority of holes are like this.

Has anyone noticed if that is a common thing in Gil's work?  I haven't seen enough of his recent courses to tell whether it's not important to him to see the green from the tee.

Here’s my informal count of greens visible from tees at original Gil Hanse designs I’ve played:



11 for 18 at Boston Golf Club
15 for 18 at Rustic Canyon
13 for 18 at French Creek Golf Club
15 for 18 at Applebrook Golf Club
10 for 18 at Inniscrone Golf Course
13 for 18 at Ohoopee Match Club (Championship Routing)

[Tom_Doak]

Jon:


Thanks for the above, a good way to do it.


Not trying to hijack the thread, but for reference, High Pointe was 14/18, and Tara Iti is 13/18, even though I really do try to make the green visible from the tee as often as I can.

[jeffwarne]

Moved to other thread.

[Tom_Doak]

Jeff:


I'm starting a separate thread so we don't hijack this one.


Everyone else:


Please get this thread back to Ohoopee [if you have been there], and follow this tangent on the other thread.

[Chad Anderson (Tennessee)]

Our caddie said they are considering softening this green as it plays pretty tough.  I think I made a par there, but one of our players missed in the wrong spot and made a big number.  I thought it was great the way it is.

Secondly, he has accomplished the same on another short "par 4".  I think it was #14.  It is a short hole where you can drive towards the green over a large bunker and give yourself a straight-forward 50-60 yard pitch up the length of the green.  However, you can play safe off the tee and out to the right with hybrid or 3 wood.  HOWEVER, he has placed a small knob on the right front of the green that makes the second shot extremely difficult to get close. My partner went left off the tee and his 70 yard pitch hit the knob and rolled back onto the fringe.  He was maybe 20 feet from the pin for his third, but was dead.  No way to get it close.  Again, I smiled and thought it was genius.

Our caddie said they are considering softening this green as it plays pretty tough.  I think I made a par there, but one of our players missed in the wrong spot and made a big number.  I thought it was great the way it is.
Here are a few shots of that knob and that hole.  I too thought it was an absolutely brilliant design for a short par-4, and one great hole among many at the course overall.



View from the tee - you can see how much room you have to bail out left, bringing the greenside knob directly into play on the approach.



Front left greenside view of the knob - a challenging spot.



From the back of the green - you can see here how the green is open and accessible on a line from the tee, and that the knob and green contours can help guide a ball on to the putting surface.  You can also see how narrow the green is.



From the left side of the green - note the rear tier.


Great hole.

[Chad Anderson (Tennessee)]

You counted 13 greens you could see from the tee at Ohoopee?  Let me try to walk back through it....


1 - No
2 - Yes, par 5 and the green was a long ways away!
3 - No
4 - Yes, short par 4
5 - Yes, par 3
6 - No
7 - Yes, par 3
8 - Yes, short par 4
9 - No
10 - No
11 - No
12 - No
13 - Yes, Par 3
14 - Yes, short par 4
15 - No
16 - Yes, par 3 - great short par 3!
17 - Yes
18 - No


I think I may be off on 1 of these, but I count 9 you can see and 9 you can't.  If you take out the par 3's, which you should be able to see greens on all par 3's, right?  That leaves you at 9 of 14 you can't see.  Three others are short par 4's.


Maybe I played too far back?

I have zero problem with not seeing the green from the tee but there is no doubt that often times, a hole is more attractive if you can see the green from the tee.

In that respect, there are courses where I think too often you only see to the turning point or just beyond. It can be tedious if the majority of holes are like this.

Has anyone noticed if that is a common thing in Gil's work?  I haven't seen enough of his recent courses to tell whether it's not important to him to see the green from the tee.

Here’s my informal count of greens visible from tees at original Gil Hanse designs I’ve played:



11 for 18 at Boston Golf Club
15 for 18 at Rustic Canyon
13 for 18 at French Creek Golf Club
15 for 18 at Applebrook Golf Club
10 for 18 at Inniscrone Golf Course
13 for 18 at Ohoopee Match Club (Championship Routing)

[Tom_Doak]

Our caddie said they are considering softening this green as it plays pretty tough.  I think I made a par there, but one of our players missed in the wrong spot and made a big number.  I thought it was great the way it is.

It looks like an excellent hole in the photos.  It's a shame if they think a little feature like that is too severe on a short par-4.


Which begs the question:  who, exactly, is involved in the decision of whether to soften the green or not?  And why are they concerned about some butthurt golfers?


Also, how did someone in your foursome make a "big number" there?  It looks like there's an awful lot of short grass to stay on.  Did he try to hit a hero shot from the wrong position, and screwed it up big time?

[Ryan Hillenbrand]

For those that have played Congaree and Ohoopee, the two most heralded southern courses in awhile, how would you split 10 plays?

[goldj]

7 to 3 in favor of Ohoopee.  Didn’t love the water features at Congaree, loved the ground features at Ohoopee.  Both are great courses.  Just liked Ohoopee more.

[Carson Pilcher]

Our caddie said they are considering softening this green as it plays pretty tough.  I think I made a par there, but one of our players missed in the wrong spot and made a big number.  I thought it was great the way it is.

It looks like an excellent hole in the photos.  It's a shame if they think a little feature like that is too severe on a short par-4.


Which begs the question:  who, exactly, is involved in the decision of whether to soften the green or not?  And why are they concerned about some butthurt golfers?


Also, how did someone in your foursome make a "big number" there?  It looks like there's an awful lot of short grass to stay on.  Did he try to hit a hero shot from the wrong position, and screwed it up big time?

A big number could be had there easily.  The second day we played it, the pin was tucked left by the mound. My playing partner took three attempts to get his ball over the hill and to stay on the green.  However, it is match play so at some point, he would be in his pocket.


I apologize for my original post saying "right side of the green". It is obviously on the LEFT side of the green. :-)

[corey miller]

Does it really matter that a hole is "match play"?  And if it does matter it would seem that those that want to soften a mound are even more "wrong".


Would love for Gil to say they need to "deal with it" for a few months/years before telling him his feature was too "severe" .

[Mike_Young]

For those that have played Congaree and Ohoopee, the two most heralded southern courses in awhile, how would you split 10 plays?

Congaree is a very nice club but just not my thing...I've played it once and for the sake of comparison would say 1 out of 10 but would just as soon play all Ohooppee...

[thomaslaffont]

I visited the club about a year ago. I didn't get the full experience as the club house was still under construction. Overall, the entire site showed a lot of promise. I played the course only once and remember it as frustrating to play on your first round with lots of blind shots and strategic choices required that aren't obvious off the tee or the fairway. I would love to go back to see how the course plays on subsequent rounds. Regardless, every hole was interesting and I finished the round with a deep desire to play it again.


How important is it for any course to satisfy on the first round? Or should it build like a fine wine?