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Rob Marshall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: Tiger Woods Spinal Fusion and incredible comeback
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2019, 05:36:25 PM »
Tiger came out on tour a skinny kid using a short steel shafted driver and bombed it by everyone. He didn’t need and juice. He didn’t win majors with length he won with an amazing ability to will the ball in the hole. Probably the best putter we’ve ever seen.
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: Tiger Woods Spinal Fusion and incredible comeback
« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2019, 04:47:01 AM »


An amazing sporting and mental achievement (see also Hogan, Olazabal and also others like Niki Lauda etc) but surely an amazing medical/surgical achievement as well. Advances in medical matters have been amazing over the decades.
As to juice and equivalents, injuries, even minor ones, limit participation and juice and equivalents, even legit ones, mask pain and permit participation. They also permit training, and greater levels of  training (practice).
As to putting, I recall reading comments a while back about juice etc improving eyesight ..... and eyesight surely aids putting.
Atb

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: Tiger Woods Spinal Fusion and incredible comeback
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2019, 10:15:17 AM »


People are certainly free to speculate to their hearts’ desire on Tiger’s regimen, so to speak, but an anecdotal observation of a changed physique, even a dramatically changed one, is simply ridiculous, imho. I personally can attest to the fact that I had a very thin build most of my first 35+ years on the planet, and worked hard in my late teens to change that, to no avail. Yet when I finally found the right training program for me, my strength exploded and my physique changed, fairly significantly, in my late 30s, no less. My shoulders are significantly wider and I get comments on my arms not infrequently, and I’m willing to wager I’ve had more pizza and beer than Tiger ever has, and I’ve definitely never touched anything juicy other than a V-8....










Pics or it didn't happen ;D .


That's really funny, but even my wife doesn't want to see those pics... :)
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: Tiger Woods Spinal Fusion and incredible comeback
« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2019, 11:29:59 AM »
The questions about Tiger's physical transformation are legitimate for two reasons; he chose Anthony Galea as one of his doctors, and his injuries over the last 10 or 12 years are apparently consistent with the effects performance enhancing drugs can have downstream.


This is not an accusation, just a statement to those suggesting it's inappropriate.


As far as the faith some had in his pending resurgence over these 10 years, good on you. With no ill will, I considered him finished as an elite level player for several years simply due to the number injuries, the loss of motivation and the difficult road back. Once he was found asleep at the wheel a couple years ago, I simply hoped he would survive for his children's sake. I figured he was in a really deep abyss. To win the Masters 2 years later, AND be the best player in the field in doing so is astonishing.


Hogan won how many majors after his injuries?


Someone please make the case for him not winning three more majors. When Jack won in '86 he was (appeared) 15 years older than Tiger this past weekend...


The argument against Tiger winning three more majors is pretty simple: very few majors have been won at his age, or older.


Background: Only a dozen majors -- including going all the way back to limited field Open Championships held a century-and-a-half ago -- have been won by golfers age 43 or older. Since 1986, when both Jack (age 46 at the Masters) and Floyd (age 43 at the U.S Open at Shinnecock) won in their 40s, only three golfers age 43 or older have won majors: Crenshaw at the Masters (43 in 1995); Mickelson at the Open Championship at the Honourable Company (43 in 2013); and Tiger at the Masters. So in the past 30+ years (in an era of what many here on GCA argue is better, fitter and deeper fields of golfers), it's been done all of three times.


That would suggest the odds are against him.


Of course, he's Tiger, and many would suggest the normal bounds of golfing history don't apply to him, and there is some (a lot, in candor) truth in that. His scoring records in majors, his front-running success at winning majors, and his overall record suggest he's the one guy who can overcome the history of mid-40-ish golfers not winning majors all that often.


And -- a theory I agree with  -- if you believe in horses for courses, he has several favorable ones coming up: Bethpage Black next month; Pebble Beach in June; Torrey Pines and TOC in two years; Hoylake the year after that; Valhalla and Southern Hills when he'd be nearing 50. Plus Augusta National for...however long he wants to play there. All places he's won majors.


But, the odds are against him, I'd argue. Winning majors is difficult -- a lot has to go right for you to do so (mostly, with your game; sometimes, also, with the other guys' lack of game). Tiger lost a lot of opportunities in his prime or near-prime to win majors (he missed entirely 14 majors between 2008 and 2017 -- a period of time when Jack's equivalent majors record included seven wins).


Ten years ago, I thought (and believe I said so here ;) ) that he'd catch and surpass Jack's record (professional) of 18 majors. Now, I'm not so sure.




Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: Tiger Woods Spinal Fusion and incredible comeback
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2019, 12:15:58 PM »
If you have a couple hours, this documentary details how drug testing for performance enhancing drugs is very easily beaten for sports with rigorous protocols, which I would guess are far more strict than the PGATour....


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icarus_(2017_film)
« Last Edit: April 18, 2019, 12:19:56 PM by Kalen Braley »

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: Tiger Woods Spinal Fusion and incredible comeback
« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2019, 12:41:21 PM »
Nice case, Phil! I generally agree, the odds are against him. I'm rooting for it to happen, but it also doesn't matter to me in terms of assessing his standing.


And lest anyone misunderstand, I don't have a problem with anyone suggesting or believing Tiger juiced; I'm simply saying the anecdotal "He looks jacked" argument is beyond a joke. The rest of the argument is believable, but that part isn't, it's born of ignorance.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Kyle Harris

  • Karma: +0/-0
http://kylewharris.com

Constantly blamed by 8-handicaps for their 7 missed 12-footers each round.

Thank you for changing the font of your posts. It makes them easier to scroll past.

Mike Sweeney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: Tiger Woods Spinal Fusion and incredible comeback
« Reply #32 on: April 18, 2019, 04:04:28 PM »
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

Tom Birkert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: Tiger Woods Spinal Fusion and incredible comeback
« Reply #33 on: April 18, 2019, 05:07:39 PM »
The questions about Tiger's physical transformation are legitimate for two reasons; he chose Anthony Galea as one of his doctors, and his injuries over the last 10 or 12 years are apparently consistent with the effects performance enhancing drugs can have downstream.


This is not an accusation, just a statement to those suggesting it's inappropriate.


As far as the faith some had in his pending resurgence over these 10 years, good on you. With no ill will, I considered him finished as an elite level player for several years simply due to the number injuries, the loss of motivation and the difficult road back. Once he was found asleep at the wheel a couple years ago, I simply hoped he would survive for his children's sake. I figured he was in a really deep abyss. To win the Masters 2 years later, AND be the best player in the field in doing so is astonishing.


Hogan won how many majors after his injuries?


Someone please make the case for him not winning three more majors. When Jack won in '86 he was (appeared) 15 years older than Tiger this past weekend...


The argument against Tiger winning three more majors is pretty simple: very few majors have been won at his age, or older.


Background: Only a dozen majors -- including going all the way back to limited field Open Championships held a century-and-a-half ago -- have been won by golfers age 43 or older. Since 1986, when both Jack (age 46 at the Masters) and Floyd (age 43 at the U.S Open at Shinnecock) won in their 40s, only three golfers age 43 or older have won majors: Crenshaw at the Masters (43 in 1995); Mickelson at the Open Championship at the Honourable Company (43 in 2013); and Tiger at the Masters. So in the past 30+ years (in an era of what many here on GCA argue is better, fitter and deeper fields of golfers), it's been done all of three times.


That would suggest the odds are against him.


Of course, he's Tiger, and many would suggest the normal bounds of golfing history don't apply to him, and there is some (a lot, in candor) truth in that. His scoring records in majors, his front-running success at winning majors, and his overall record suggest he's the one guy who can overcome the history of mid-40-ish golfers not winning majors all that often.


And -- a theory I agree with  -- if you believe in horses for courses, he has several favorable ones coming up: Bethpage Black next month; Pebble Beach in June; Torrey Pines and TOC in two years; Hoylake the year after that; Valhalla and Southern Hills when he'd be nearing 50. Plus Augusta National for...however long he wants to play there. All places he's won majors.


But, the odds are against him, I'd argue. Winning majors is difficult -- a lot has to go right for you to do so (mostly, with your game; sometimes, also, with the other guys' lack of game). Tiger lost a lot of opportunities in his prime or near-prime to win majors (he missed entirely 14 majors between 2008 and 2017 -- a period of time when Jack's equivalent majors record included seven wins).


Ten years ago, I thought (and believe I said so here ;) ) that he'd catch and surpass Jack's record (professional) of 18 majors. Now, I'm not so sure.


I always thought that 15 would be the hardest. Just like winning his first PGA Tournament would be harder than the next one. He's over the hump. It's done. And it's been done within 5 Majors of his return to fitness (along with a 2nd and a 6th in Majors, a Tour Championship win and 2nd in the FedEx Cup).


Don't compare mere mortals to Tiger Woods. They are not relevant to him.


If he stays fit, he'll break the record for Major wins over the age of 40, just like he's broken records at every point in his career. Sorry, not broken, decimated.


I don't like his chances so much at Bethpage, but I love them at Pebble Beach.

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: Tiger Woods Spinal Fusion and incredible comeback
« Reply #34 on: April 18, 2019, 05:48:55 PM »

Someone please make the case for him not winning three more majors. When Jack won in '86 he was (appeared) 15 years older than Tiger this past weekend...



The argument against Tiger winning three more majors is pretty simple: very few majors have been won at his age, or older.



It is...but that’s really it, isn’t it.


In my opinion, while he wouldn’t want to repeat it if given the chance, these last 10 years have kept him out of the golf grind...effectively extending his golf life/career. I don’t expect him to play 30 events and travel the world chasing appearance fees. But he’s a hell of a lot fresher competitively than any of the examples of other stars that win after 40.


Not sure if it will happen, but this past weekend sure shined a light on the argument that today’s competition is so much better than the Els, Micklelson, Duval contingent of Tigers prime.

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: Tiger Woods Spinal Fusion and incredible comeback
« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2019, 08:32:03 AM »
The questions about Tiger's physical transformation are legitimate for two reasons; he chose Anthony Galea as one of his doctors, and his injuries over the last 10 or 12 years are apparently consistent with the effects performance enhancing drugs can have downstream.


This is not an accusation, just a statement to those suggesting it's inappropriate.


As far as the faith some had in his pending resurgence over these 10 years, good on you. With no ill will, I considered him finished as an elite level player for several years simply due to the number injuries, the loss of motivation and the difficult road back. Once he was found asleep at the wheel a couple years ago, I simply hoped he would survive for his children's sake. I figured he was in a really deep abyss. To win the Masters 2 years later, AND be the best player in the field in doing so is astonishing.


Hogan won how many majors after his injuries?


Someone please make the case for him not winning three more majors. When Jack won in '86 he was (appeared) 15 years older than Tiger this past weekend...

Jim

A great post.

In terms of your question Phil has answered it by looking at stats, but I think more at issue to his future is how his body holds up. As I understand it heavy steroid use leaves a legacy both good and bad and if he was then he may have to deal with that at some point. Even if he didn't the wear and tear on his body has been immense. While he's looking good now, and swinging more like he was in his younger days (a swing that brought a whole load of injury issues) how long can he do it at his age with that body ?

What I think will be interesting will be what playing schedule he takes on in the next few years. I suspect it will be fairly curtailed as he focuses on the majors.

Niall

Pat Burke

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: Tiger Woods Spinal Fusion and incredible comeback
« Reply #36 on: April 19, 2019, 01:47:32 PM »
The questions about Tiger's physical transformation are legitimate for two reasons; he chose Anthony Galea as one of his doctors, and his injuries over the last 10 or 12 years are apparently consistent with the effects performance enhancing drugs can have downstream.


This is not an accusation, just a statement to those suggesting it's inappropriate.


As far as the faith some had in his pending resurgence over these 10 years, good on you. With no ill will, I considered him finished as an elite level player for several years simply due to the number injuries, the loss of motivation and the difficult road back. Once he was found asleep at the wheel a couple years ago, I simply hoped he would survive for his children's sake. I figured he was in a really deep abyss. To win the Masters 2 years later, AND be the best player in the field in doing so is astonishing.


Hogan won how many majors after his injuries?


Someone please make the case for him not winning three more majors. When Jack won in '86 he was (appeared) 15 years older than Tiger this past weekend...


The argument against Tiger winning three more majors is pretty simple: very few majors have been won at his age, or older.


Background: Only a dozen majors -- including going all the way back to limited field Open Championships held a century-and-a-half ago -- have been won by golfers age 43 or older. Since 1986, when both Jack (age 46 at the Masters) and Floyd (age 43 at the U.S Open at Shinnecock) won in their 40s, only three golfers age 43 or older have won majors: Crenshaw at the Masters (43 in 1995); Mickelson at the Open Championship at the Honourable Company (43 in 2013); and Tiger at the Masters. So in the past 30+ years (in an era of what many here on GCA argue is better, fitter and deeper fields of golfers), it's been done all of three times.


That would suggest the odds are against him.


Of course, he's Tiger, and many would suggest the normal bounds of golfing history don't apply to him, and there is some (a lot, in candor) truth in that. His scoring records in majors, his front-running success at winning majors, and his overall record suggest he's the one guy who can overcome the history of mid-40-ish golfers not winning majors all that often.


And -- a theory I agree with  -- if you believe in horses for courses, he has several favorable ones coming up: Bethpage Black next month; Pebble Beach in June; Torrey Pines and TOC in two years; Hoylake the year after that; Valhalla and Southern Hills when he'd be nearing 50. Plus Augusta National for...however long he wants to play there. All places he's won majors.


But, the odds are against him, I'd argue. Winning majors is difficult -- a lot has to go right for you to do so (mostly, with your game; sometimes, also, with the other guys' lack of game). Tiger lost a lot of opportunities in his prime or near-prime to win majors (he missed entirely 14 majors between 2008 and 2017 -- a period of time when Jack's equivalent majors record included seven wins).


Ten years ago, I thought (and believe I said so here ;) ) that he'd catch and surpass Jack's record (professional) of 18 majors. Now, I'm not so sure.


I always thought that 15 would be the hardest. Just like winning his first PGA Tournament would be harder than the next one. He's over the hump. It's done. And it's been done within 5 Majors of his return to fitness (along with a 2nd and a 6th in Majors, a Tour Championship win and 2nd in the FedEx Cup).


Don't compare mere mortals to Tiger Woods. They are not relevant to him.


If he stays fit, he'll break the record for Major wins over the age of 40, just like he's broken records at every point in his career. Sorry, not broken, decimated.


I don't like his chances so much at Bethpage, but I love them at Pebble Beach.


Interesting to see a difference in Bethpage setup for a PGA vs the us open.
And in May


Could see more width?  Less punishing rough?

Mark Fedeli

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: Tiger Woods Spinal Fusion and incredible comeback
« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2019, 06:08:56 PM »
The fairways on Black are as narrow as they’ve ever been. So no help there.
South Jersey to Brooklyn. @marrrkfedeli

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