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Peter Pallotta

Re: Whjy is this Harbour Town Held in Any Esteem?
« Reply #50 on: April 23, 2019, 10:36:42 PM »
VK says the thread's wrapped up, so I suppose a little sidebar won't hurt. I thought: these golf courses, famous and/or grand, what are they? Why do the engender travel and arguments and behind the scene intrigue? Answer: like the Maltese Falcon, they are the stuff that dreams are made of.
And in support/defence of VK:
Are you a close-mouthed man?
No, I like to talk.
Better and better. I distrust a close-mouthed man. He generally picks the wrong time to talk and says the wrong things. Talking is something you can't do judiciously unless you keep in practice. Now, sir, we'll talk if you'd like, and I'll tell you right out that I'm a man who likes talking to a man who likes to talk.

JMEvensky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Whjy is this Harbour Town Held in Any Esteem?
« Reply #51 on: April 24, 2019, 09:15:20 AM »
Props for quoting Sidney Greenstreet.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Whjy is this Harbour Town Held in Any Esteem?
« Reply #52 on: April 24, 2019, 10:20:26 AM »
Will Dye's legacy be hurt going forward because his courses do not follow the modern formula of obvious greatness? It was once said that anyone can build a difficult course, today I'm afraid anyone can build a beautiful course.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2019, 10:22:02 AM by John Kavanaugh »

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why is this Harbour Town Held in Any Esteem?
« Reply #53 on: April 24, 2019, 11:35:35 AM »
Barney, I sure hope not.  While a few contemporary golf architects might be considered his equal or even superior,  I don't think any of them has yet eclipsed his genius. 

Bogey
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Whjy is this Harbour Town Held in Any Esteem?
« Reply #54 on: April 24, 2019, 11:40:24 AM »
No architect provides less instant gratification than Pete Dye.

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Whjy is this Harbour Town Held in Any Esteem?
« Reply #55 on: April 24, 2019, 12:05:24 PM »
Barney, you're really getting some wood on the ball today.  Are you suggesting that much of today's popular golf architecture is "patronizing?"

Bogey
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Whjy is this Harbour Town Held in Any Esteem?
« Reply #56 on: April 24, 2019, 12:32:28 PM »
Instagramy might be the word.

Jeff Schley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Whjy is this Harbour Town Held in Any Esteem?
« Reply #57 on: April 24, 2019, 01:29:24 PM »
Will Dye's legacy be hurt going forward because his courses do not follow the modern formula of obvious greatness? It was once said that anyone can build a difficult course, today I'm afraid anyone can build a beautiful course.


Well unfortunately nobody is building many courses anywhere today and mostly in terrific locations because of the saturation I think still exists in the market with more closings certainly going to happen.  If I'm an investor I realize I'm not going to use the 90's/00's model of building around a new subdivision.  I'm looking for secluded with secluded location in mountains or links land (Sand Valley, Ballyneal, Streamsong, Bandon etc.) or going for water views (Tara Iti, Hogs Head, Cabot Links).
I think with Doak, Hanse, C&C, etc. the chic design that it appears is embraced is a minimalist style.  I don't think the gluttonous days of Nicklaus, Fazio will be back.  I do think Nicklaus and Fazio made some beautiful courses, but in a more artificial way.
Renovations or more so restorations are the work and there is some wonderful work that has been done in the last 10 years and will continue. We don't need to buy a new car, but get the existing one detailed to bring them back to life. Much more economical as well.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Whjy is this Harbour Town Held in Any Esteem?
« Reply #58 on: April 24, 2019, 01:45:00 PM »
If I'm an investor I realize I'm not going to use the 90's/00's model of building around a new subdivision.  I'm looking for secluded with secluded location in mountains or links land (Sand Valley, Ballyneal, Streamsong, Bandon etc.) or going for water views (Tara Iti, Hogs Head, Cabot Links).

Jeff, alternatively I would recommend a two years treasury instrument yielding 2.36% today or perhaps a 5.0% capitalization rate on a bulk warehouse building leased to Amazon for a primary term of ten years.  I would recommend multi-family but I don't think rents will escalate over time to juice your return over the low cap rates prevalent in the market.  Avoid equities based on the fact that I'm all in.

You are welcome.
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Jeff Schley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Whjy is this Harbour Town Held in Any Esteem?
« Reply #59 on: April 24, 2019, 02:08:31 PM »
If I'm an investor I realize I'm not going to use the 90's/00's model of building around a new subdivision.  I'm looking for secluded with secluded location in mountains or links land (Sand Valley, Ballyneal, Streamsong, Bandon etc.) or going for water views (Tara Iti, Hogs Head, Cabot Links).

Jeff, alternatively I would recommend a two years treasury instrument yielding 2.36% today or perhaps a 5.0% capitalization rate on a bulk warehouse building leased to Amazon for a primary term of ten years.  I would recommend multi-family but I don't think rents will escalate over time to juice your return over the low cap rates prevalent in the market.  Avoid equities based on the fact that I'm all in.

You are welcome.
Michael how much do I owe you for the hour of your time?  ;D
I need more tax write off's, more investment property you think?
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Whjy is this Harbour Town Held in Any Esteem?
« Reply #60 on: April 25, 2019, 12:42:44 PM »



No architect provides less instant gratification than Pete Dye.




Lets dissect this a little bit if you're game...


I like Pete Dye's courses but always thought of them as very black and white...in other words, they don't take long to form an opinion of.


Regarding "Instagrammy"...which modern course is more striking than some of his best known? Sawgrass Island hole, PGA West with that gigantic bunker, The place on Lake Michigan...Harbor Town's 18th...


His philosophy on making the Tour guys think is absolute genius...but he couldn't find subtle with a map...