Five things I am most looking forward to this Saturday from ANGC

[Ran Morrissett]

1. The 15^th hole – can the women hit and hold that sliver of green from 200+ yards out? If not, how much over par will the hole play because one thing is certain: that wedge shot ranks with the toughest in world golf.

2. 12^th hole – again, the green is brutally shallow and coming in with a ~7 iron is a significantly different proposition than a 9 iron. Same can be said for the approach to 7 but they have set that up at a prudent distance of 330y.

3. Where will the women make up ground relative to par? The men do it on the par 5s but as per question 1, will the same apply for the women?

4. What hole will produce the greatest disparity in approach club between the women this Saturday and the men the following week? Maybe 14, 17 or 18? I am thinking of uphill tee shots where the ball dies if you carry it ~235y. They are well forward on 18, which is good.

5. How many hole locations will we recognize? Or will ANGC come up with an entire fresh set just for the women? Personally, I hope they go with the hole in one location on 16 vs the brute one short right.


Bottom line: The fact that the women generate less spin than the men leads to many interesting set-up questions. There is every reason to think that ANGC will get it right and watching them play will make for wildly interesting viewing. I can't wait!


What questions are you most looking forward to seeing asked/answered this Saturday?

Best,

[Tom_Doak]

These being women amateurs and not the best of the LPGA, I would be very surprised if they are making lots of birdies at Augusta National.  The combination of a difficult course, with short-game challenges they have never encountered before, plus the pressure of being there for the first time, is likely to get to a few.


I confess to not having paid much attention in the run-up to the event . . . I just got back from ten days in Italy and Sicily with my wife . . . but assuming they are playing similar to where I did, and knowing they hit the ball a similar length as me but much more consistently, I would say the holes compare like this:


TOUGHER for the women than for the guys:  1, 4, 5, 9 [hence my nomination in the GOLF DIGEST article], 10 [maybe the toughest], 14, 15, 18


NOT MUCH TOUGHER:  2, 7, 8, 11 [assuming they're way forward], 17.


Takeaway:  it's the par-4 holes that are going to be toughest for them.  The par-5's will play like three-shotters for 90% of the field, and none of them are pushovers with a wedge in your hand.

[Carl Rogers]

Big picture question:
If AM BJ wanted a "members" course, can or will that goal be answered by this televised event? 
Answer 1:  the alterations to the course, pin locations, bunker depth, green speeds, penalty areas, etc are now so severe that the "members" course goal is no longer relevant no matter where the tees are located.
Answer 2:  after the women play several more rounds, they will get used to it and learn where their games allow them to get go for it or play safe.
Answer 3: they can play the course effectively as it is.
(I would bet on answer 1)


Another question:  Are there any very good (ie scratch) golfers that belong to ANGC and what is there average score off the members tees?

[Jim Nugent]

These being women amateurs and not the best of the LPGA... 

That's the tournament I'd like to see: the Women's Masters Invitational at ANGC, where the best women players in the world play, at appropriate tees of course.   

[Matthew Petersen]

Another question:  Are there any very good (ie scratch) golfers that belong to ANGC and what is there average score off the members tees?

Carl,


I don't know about the full membership, but famously you've got Jeff Knox, who often plays as a marker on the weekend Masters rounds when needed. He has beat the pro he's playing alongside a number of times and IIRC he's supposed to have the course record from the members tees with ... wait for it ... a 61 (!?!).

[V. Kmetz]

Another question:  Are there any very good (ie scratch) golfers that belong to ANGC and what is there average score off the members tees?

Carl,


I don't know about the full membership, but famously you've got Jeff Knox, who often plays as a marker on the weekend Masters rounds when needed. He has beat the pro he's playing alongside a number of times and IIRC he's supposed to have the course record from the members tees with ... wait for it ... a 61 (!?!).

Wasn't/isn't the current chairman, Ridley a noted amateur player?


I don't know about how many of them shoot at a near-scratch HCP...but however many there are, the nature of them being scratch tells you what they shoot...about 1-4 shots over the course rating... at ANGC or anywhere they play.

[Jerry Kluger]

I want to see how they handle the green speeds.  Presuming they are stimping at least 12 the contours and rollouts will be extremely challenging and the big question is if they will be able to handle 3 and probably 4 putt holes.  The awkward lies, especially downhill will also be very challenging.  The weather could be a big factor as wind could really make it tough. 

[Terry Lavin]

After watching the US Senior Women’s Open players struggle at a much shorter and easier Chicago Golf Club last year, I’m not expecting much from this amateur group at ANGC. Seems like a mismatch, so to speak.

[V. Kmetz]

After watching the US Senior Women’s Open players struggle at a much shorter and easier Chicago Golf Club last year, I’m not expecting much from this amateur group at ANGC. Seems like a mismatch, so to speak.

I agree, yet just like THAT tournament, it was all about us observing the course at play, without the steroidal and imcomaprable elite men's touring play to distort what it is architecturally, but an open field of senior women and now, on this course, younger female amateurs. Both of these groups are much. much closer practically to the abilities the male, recreational majority of this board have in our games... then we are to touring male players and tournaments that seem to lead GCA at classic championship or TV courses.


I too will forget 99% of the names I see and observe this weekend; I care about observing the nature of their struggles, as they better equate to the struggles I or a male recreational player might have... gives the public a greater insight as to whether the details of ANGC have made the course untenable for what we call regular play.  This idea is one of the most fertile debate arenas on this board...about one of the most fertile and well-known courses in the art that this board covers...


If you're not interested in this, what aspect of GCA are you interested in?

[Bill Gayne]

One of the biggest questions for the players is the decision to take a local caddie. I think those who do will have a real advantage over those who don't.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

One of the biggest questions for the players is the decision to take a local caddie. I think those who do will have a real advantage over those who don't.

Do you think many will? I think many will want to share the experience with their father, sister, college coach, whatever…

[Chad Anderson (Tennessee)]

Saturday will be great either way.  To have these ladies on this stage, it's huge for women's golf.  There are some great players in the field and i'm sure the top 30 will play some good golf at ANGC.  They played some good golf here at Champion's Retreat today and the greens are rolling very quickly.


The toughest part may be the weather on Friday's practice round. 

[Jason Topp]

I will be interested to see how differently it plays from the men's tournament. 


My guess is that the formula will be a little different but if the weather is cooperative the best of them will shoot some low scores from those tees. 

[Kevin Neary]

I think the scores are going to be lower than most realize. I wouldn’t be surprised if something in the -4 range wins.

[Jim Nugent]

After the 1st round, at Champions Retreat, the two leaders both shot 4-under 68.  One of them is Jennifer Kupcho, who is ranked #1 in the World Amateur Golf Rankings, and has already qualified for the LPGA tour.  i.e. she is an LPGA caliber player, who finished 21st in the 2017 US Women's Open. 

We may see some much better golf and golfers than some of you are suggesting. 
 

[Pete_Pittock]

all the players will get a practice round at ANGC on Friday, even if they missed the cut. They should do better than our meager expectations.

[David Davis]

The two single biggest factors in my mind will be length and speed of greens.


If they play the members tees I think there will be ladies in the field that kill it and go low, then I definitely agree with Kevin that -4 or lower will be the number. Sure hope they televise it over here as I'd love to see it now with having visited recently. I think no matter what the course they play will be far similar to what I saw than the course played at the Masters (set up wise).

[jeffwarne]

I think the scores are going to be lower than most realize. I wouldn’t be surprised if something in the -4 range wins.

With rain Friday, it could be soft-and they can choose NOT to dry it out via sub air.
That said, while one or two players may have good rounds, as they did at Champions retreat, with only 30 players playing the law of averages is not in their favor.
The green design alone will diqualify some. even playing as soft as I expect it to.
The greens at Champions Retreat were shockingly fast, but they're not ANGC
(I don't know why I'm shocked anymore as that's just another way nearly all high end and often low end golf has jumped the shark- I was stunned at how fast the greens were in France last summer, and at California muni a week ago)

[Peter Pallotta]

I read a few years ago about Jack N, who plays the members tees, being quite pleased to better his age with a 1 over, 73. Granted, he doesn't hit it very far anymore, but he's JN! No one has ever understood or played the course any better, or putted those greens more successfully. A 73.

[John Kavanaugh]

Is this now the 6th Major in Women's golf?

[JESII]

The 5th...replacing the Dinah Shore.


Anyone heard a word from Palm Springs this week?

[Daryl David]

The 5th...replacing the Dinah Shore.

Apparently the worlds #1 ranked woman amateur agrees with that.

[Philip Hensley]

Saturday will be great either way.  To have these ladies on this stage, it's huge for women's golf.  There are some great players in the field and i'm sure the top 30 will play some good golf at ANGC.  They played some good golf here at Champion's Retreat today and the greens are rolling very quickly.


The toughest part may be the weather on Friday's practice round.

Right now the forecast is 100% chance of thunderstorms. What happens if they aren't able to get in a practice round?

[Erik J. Barzeski]

Right now the forecast is 100% chance of thunderstorms. What happens if they aren't able to get in a practice round?

It's a tight schedule, but they could have the putting portion of Drive, Chip, and Putt elsewhere. It doesn't have to be on the 18th green. Though, really, that'd be a pretty cool thing to unfortunately give up.

Assuming everything gets pushed back one day, I mean, and the women play a practice round Saturday and the final round on Sunday.

[Peter Sayegh]

First off, the round being played on Saturday as scheduled. Just arrived and skies are overcast but no precip. Weather.com has been a little inconsistent on the next two days but Friday DOES seem in jeopardy as of now. Would they not forego the practice round and still aim for a Saturday championship?As for the play itself, I'm eager to see how often and where the putter is used off the green. Granted, I don't watch a ton of women's events but it seems that when I do see it they are more willing to pull the putter.