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George Pazin

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What's with the ties in the match play?
« on: March 28, 2019, 01:15:51 PM »
I looked around a little, couldn't find out what was going on. Can someone briefly explain the changes to the format and how they proceed after "ties"?
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's with the ties in the match play?
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2019, 01:29:53 PM »
https://www.golfchannel.com/news/group-standings-2019-wgc-dell-technologies-match-play

Player with the best round-robin record from each of the 16 groups advances.  Format is <wins> - <lossess> - <ties>

P.S.  Tie = AS after 18 in round robin play.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2019, 01:35:44 PM by Kalen Braley »

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's with the ties in the match play?
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2019, 01:31:55 PM »
Wouldn't want the boys to have to play an extra hole or three...

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's with the ties in the match play?
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2019, 01:43:18 PM »
https://www.golfchannel.com/news/group-standings-2019-wgc-dell-technologies-match-play

Player with the best round-robin record from each of the 16 groups advances.  Format is <wins> - <lossess> - <ties>

P.S.  Tie = AS after 18 in round robin play.


Wow, that's even more pathetic than I imagined.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's with the ties in the match play?
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2019, 01:57:12 PM »
They have ties in the Ryder Cup and the Presidents Cup. They have a tiebreaker for bracket play. The finalists and semifinalists play seven rounds in four days. There is a TV window.  The camera crews are probably unionized and they would get overtime pay.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's with the ties in the match play?
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2019, 02:00:13 PM »
https://www.golfchannel.com/news/group-standings-2019-wgc-dell-technologies-match-play

Player with the best round-robin record from each of the 16 groups advances.  Format is <wins> - <lossess> - <ties>

P.S.  Tie = AS after 18 in round robin play.


Wow, that's even more pathetic than I imagined.


I think Round Robin play is better overall for identifying the "best" player to advance to the single elimination final 16 bracket.  Any one can get hot in one match, but to play well in 3 requires more consistency.


As for ties, the Ryder Cup/Presidents Cup does this as well, its just called halved instead of tied...is it the verbage that offends?




George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's with the ties in the match play?
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2019, 02:01:13 PM »
They have ties in the Ryder Cup and the Presidents Cup. They have a tiebreaker for bracket play. The finalists and semifinalists play seven rounds in four days. There is a TV window.  The camera crews are probably unionized and they would get overtime pay.


Yeah, yeah, yeah. :) I'd prefer actual match play elimination, but I'm weird like that...


One and done, baby, that's the pressure of March Madness.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's with the ties in the match play?
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2019, 02:03:11 PM »
https://www.golfchannel.com/news/group-standings-2019-wgc-dell-technologies-match-play

Player with the best round-robin record from each of the 16 groups advances.  Format is <wins> - <lossess> - <ties>

P.S.  Tie = AS after 18 in round robin play.


Wow, that's even more pathetic than I imagined.


I think Round Robin play is better overall for identifying the "best" player to advance to the single elimination final 16 bracket.  Any one can get hot in one match, but to play well in 3 requires more consistency.


As for ties, the Ryder Cup/Presidents Cup does this as well, its just called halved instead of tied...is it the verbage that offends?


Verbiage never offends me. Weakness in professional sports does, though. Good Lord, there is one match play event a year, play it out...
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's with the ties in the match play?
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2019, 02:04:09 PM »
They have ties in the Ryder Cup and the Presidents Cup. They have a tiebreaker for bracket play. The finalists and semifinalists play seven rounds in four days. There is a TV window.  The camera crews are probably unionized and they would get overtime pay.


Yeah, yeah, yeah. :) I'd prefer actual match play elimination, but I'm weird like that...


One and done, baby, that's the pressure of March Madness.


I suspect the change was put in place based on player feedback/complaints.

Some of these guys are coming from long distances, and in the old format, half of all players were guaranteed to be 1 and done....I can't say I blame them.

Greg Clark

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's with the ties in the match play?
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2019, 02:13:42 PM »
I would imagine TV execs weighed in as well.  Losing some of your top viewership draws early in the event was always a problem for networks.  I like this format much better.  At a minimum you get to see almost all the top players in the world play at least three match play rounds.

Brad Tufts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's with the ties in the match play?
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2019, 02:14:04 PM »
Sounds like there is a movement afoot to go to a stroke play 36 holes on Wed/Thurs, then cut to 32 to play out the match play Fri-Sat-Sun.  I guess they want to alleviate those that start 0-2 having to stick around/try hard for a third match.


I like the round-robin, but I admit it's tough to go 0-2 and you can't leave.
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's with the ties in the match play?
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2019, 02:21:13 PM »
As for ties, the Ryder Cup/Presidents Cup does this as well, its just called halved instead of tied...is it the verbage that offends?
Halved is gone. Ties are in. The new Rules have a new language, too. Simpler. More common.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, Instructor/Coach, and Lifetime Student of the Game.

I generally ignore Rob, Tim, Garland, and Chris.

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's with the ties in the match play?
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2019, 02:21:52 PM »
What's the tie breaker when two guys halve each other and tie for first in their bracket?

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's with the ties in the match play?
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2019, 02:35:35 PM »
What's the tie breaker when two guys halve each other and tie for first in their bracket?


"If two or more players in the same group are tied after the round-robin session, they’ll compete in a hole-by-hole playoff to see who advances."
[/size]
https://www.golf.com/news/2019/03/25/wgc-match-play-format-everything-you-need-to-know/

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's with the ties in the match play?
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2019, 02:40:22 PM »
What's the tie breaker when two guys halve each other and tie for first in their bracket?


Pretty sure Kalen is wrong, I think they go to Instagram likes. If they're still tied, it's on to Twitter.....
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Jim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's with the ties in the match play?
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2019, 05:18:18 PM »
What's the tie breaker when two guys halve each other and tie for first in their bracket?
They have a long-drive contest on the first par 5.  Closest to the hole wins. 

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's with the ties in the match play?
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2019, 07:16:32 PM »
What's the tie breaker when two guys halve each other and tie for first in their bracket?
They have a long-drive contest on the first par 5.  Closest to the hole wins.


Is it like the Price is Right and you lose if you go over?
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Matthew Petersen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's with the ties in the match play?
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2019, 12:15:42 AM »
They have ties in the Ryder Cup and the Presidents Cup. They have a tiebreaker for bracket play. The finalists and semifinalists play seven rounds in four days. There is a TV window.  The camera crews are probably unionized and they would get overtime pay.


They also have 32 matches these first 3 days. On Friday, sometimes the tiebreakers end up pushing back tee times for matches that haven't started yet. I'm sure they don't really want that going on all week, with every match that's AS after 18.

Ben Malach

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's with the ties in the match play?
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2019, 01:20:16 AM »
If they are so worried about players sticking around why don't they just buck up and use a Swiss format. That way the ad guys can have the big name everyday and each match matters.
@benmalach on Instagram and Twitter

Peter Flory

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's with the ties in the match play?
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2019, 04:14:39 AM »
The problem with this system is that there are always players playing out matches after they are mathematically eliminated- but where their opponent still needs the win. 


And there are some messed up situations- like today 2 players came down the 18th hole all square.  If they tied the 18th hole, they would both be mathematically eliminated.  If one of them would have conceded the match to the other, the other would still have a chance to advance.  If their sole goal was to advance, they would have been smart to flip a coin for it. 


This is somewhat similar to the chapter of Freakonomics where wrestlers would throw matches when it didn't matter to them to benefit their opponent.  I don't think most golfers would do that, but it's not good when it is poorly structured so that the incentive is there. 

V. Kmetz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's with the ties in the match play?
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2019, 08:03:53 AM »
I observe that because elite individual match play is so rare, any imperfections in any one iteration of it are heightened to one vocal minority or another. We only get a shot or two at this, so it's a bit more precious and scrutinized than if we had six to eight such events through the season.


I like that the powers that be are/were responsive to deficiencies (quick exits of Goliaths/absence of David narratives) in previous formats, yet mindful of the uncomplicated fan, who simply wants a greater volume of Top 64 golf to observe (and will watch a Paul Casey-Patrick Reed round robin elimination on Friday morning with equal zest for a DJ-Rose final on Sunday afternoon).


I think this round-robin preliminary is far better than having a medal qualifier, produces a volume of matches exhibiting more of the Top 64 field and still allows the players something close to their normal week of Tour play.


So sure, perhaps they can continue to tweak the groups, the nature of round robin scoring. perhaps explore a way for the "second" 64 to play their way in to the last 4 spots, etc, but this tournament is far more compelling (imo) than it was in Arizona in the 2007 - 2015 period, under a different tournament regime. Though I like Austin CC from afar, and even for the match-play purpose, I hope they are able to move it around in the future to other courses in a climate favorable to this late-March/early April position on the calendar.
"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's with the ties in the match play?
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2019, 09:19:56 AM »

And there are some messed up situations- like today 2 players came down the 18th hole all square.  If they tied the 18th hole, they would both be mathematically eliminated.  If one of them would have conceded the match to the other, the other would still have a chance to advance.  If their sole goal was to advance, they would have been smart to flip a coin for it. 





Hence the value of playing each match to it's conclusion with a winner...


JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's with the ties in the match play?
« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2019, 09:22:10 AM »

They also have 32 matches these first 3 days. On Friday, sometimes the tiebreakers end up pushing back tee times for matches that haven't started yet. I'm sure they don't really want that going on all week, with every match that's AS after 18.






Pushing back tee times doesn't necessarily mean pushing back finish times...once the ties have played a hole or two and are settled, the group just starting their match has an open runway to catch up...If the 9 ties were evenly spread out, only a few of them would have interfered with normal tee times.

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's with the ties in the match play?
« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2019, 09:54:45 AM »
I find the event quite boring as there is no real urgency in any one win until Friday-and a shite ton of meaningless matches Friday.


match play has its TV weaknesses-no doubt, but a bit like the "new rules". the new format isn't a better solution.
The argument that players come a long way and 1/2 go home after one round is silly.
Every week more than half the field goes home after 2 rounds and the world keeps spinning...
and now they have players complaining they have to "stick around" to play a match at 0-2 that means nothing (to them) and are clamoring for a stroke play start for 2 rounds (talk about watering down a format)


As George says, it's one event a year.
Just play match play
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's with the ties in the match play?
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2019, 02:00:38 PM »
Jeff,

Sounds like a normal tour event then as i rarely tune in to Thursday/Friday rounds for pretty much the same reason.

P.S.  As for the one and done aspect... IIRC some of the bigger names were starting to skip the event for that very reason, which seems to have improved since the new format.

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