[mike_malone]

Curious

[Jeff Shelman]

I haven't played there, but it does seem that it plays firmer than most weeks on tour.

When it is soft and the ball doesn't bounce, they don't have to think very much. When it is firm and the ball bounces, it seems to allow doubt to creep into the minds of players - and they don't like that.

[Matt_Cohn]

My friend who played in the event said it was mostly the greens — some of the toughest he ever played, he said. Very firm, fast, and small. Lots of break on short- and mid-length putts. And the rough, etc. Basically, exactly what they're saying on TV.

[Kris Spence]

I haven’t played it but one very significant element is the side to side movement of the holes. Players facing multiple angles and holes often turning back and forth across the sight line.  I like this design approach.


The firm and fast conditions along with the breeze is certainly contributing to higher scoring.

[Tim Gavrich]

Copperhead is an excellent test, despite its design being out of fashion for contemporary GCA enthusiasts. A lot of tee shots are about not just picking the correct line but hitting your shot the right distance and, sometimes, with the right shape. This is magnified when the place is firm like it was this weekend. Several greens are angled, which means that approach shots also need some shaping in order for players to get the ball close. And as Matt said, the greens are tough. Because there's some good elevation change throughout the course, I found they reminded me more of the traditional pitched greens I grew up on in the Northeast than they reminded me of other courses here in FL that I've played.

The time I played the course, it was before they overseeded in preparation for the tournament and I thought it played spectacularly, especially since the Bermuda rough was at that will-it-jump-or-won't-it length.

[David_Tepper]

Maybe because the course has five par-3's? All five of those holes have scoring averages over 3.0.

[Terry Lavin]

Angles, hazards, tough greens and five tough par 3 holes.

[mike_malone]

Copperhead is an excellent test, despite its design being out of fashion for contemporary GCA enthusiasts. A lot of tee shots are about not just picking the correct line but hitting your shot the right distance and, sometimes, with the right shape. This is magnified when the place is firm like it was this weekend. Several greens are angled, which means that approach shots also need some shaping in order for players to get the ball close. And as Matt said, the greens are tough. Because there's some good elevation change throughout the course, I found they reminded me more of the traditional pitched greens I grew up on in the Northeast than they reminded me of other courses here in FL that I've played.

The time I played the course, it was before they overseeded in preparation for the tournament and I thought it played spectacularly, especially since the Bermuda rough was at that will-it-jump-or-won't-it length.

All good comments but this was closest to my view.

[Matthew Rose]

Among all the other things, it looks pretty narrow.

Also looks like a lot of precision tee shots.... seems like a lot of the water hazards are in the driving areas.

[James Brown]

It requires long straight driving.

[Pat Burke]

Copperhead is an excellent test, despite its design being out of fashion for contemporary GCA enthusiasts. A lot of tee shots are about not just picking the correct line but hitting your shot the right distance and, sometimes, with the right shape. This is magnified when the place is firm like it was this weekend. Several greens are angled, which means that approach shots also need some shaping in order for players to get the ball close. And as Matt said, the greens are tough. Because there's some good elevation change throughout the course, I found they reminded me more of the traditional pitched greens I grew up on in the Northeast than they reminded me of other courses here in FL that I've played.

The time I played the course, it was before they overseeded in preparation for the tournament and I thought it played spectacularly, especially since the Bermuda rough was at that will-it-jump-or-won't-it length.

All good comments but this was closest to my view.

Agreed

[Jim_Coleman]

Trees

[mike_malone]

Trees

Jim,
I didn’t see all of the play but unlike Mexico I don’t recall a shot from the trees.

[Jim_Coleman]

Just having fun

[Jeff_Brauer]

Sort of encouraging, I think.  For all the moaning and groaning about designing for Tour Pros, turns out the old guard inadvertently figured it out?  What's funny is I played Copperhead with Larry a few times and he never stopped talking about his main emphasis being on average players, especially at a resort course.


I take it some of the tee shot shaping is a result of the dog legs being maybe 250 yards, and not 300, which makes a pretty nice apex for a shaped shot.


And, the green contours at a 1970's 2-3 and probably 2.5-4% do make for harder putting than the 1.5% used on many current tour courses.


To me, the greatest part of Copperhead was the original free form art tees.  A look at the aerial shows most have been removed and simplified.  Larry thought everything should have some art to it, but alas, it seems tees really need to be practical and no amount of art is considered maintenance efficient.  Too bad, because since I missed the square tee movement, I have been starting to use the old Copperhead free form tee as one of my design signatures.  Based on reaction, its so old (dating to 1972), it has been forgotten and seems new again...….


Ditto the green angles making approach shots require some shaping.

[Tim Gavrich]

Among all the other things, it looks pretty narrow.

Also looks like a lot of precision tee shots.... seems like a lot of the water hazards are in the driving areas.

This is broadly true, but on the tee shots that are marked by trees, there is usually very little undergrowth, such that recovery shots are feasible.


And yes, water is a concern on a handful of tee shots, but because it's mostly alongside the landing area, it has somewhat more strategic value than water usually seems to...it's just that the penalty is bigger for hitting it in the water than it is a fairway bunker. And there's much less water in play overall - realistically just 2, 3, 12, 13, 14 and 16 - at Copperhead than at the other Florida Swing sites. I count 15 holes with water in play at PGA National, 10 holes at Bay Hill and 13 at Sawgrass.

[Kalen Braley]

Looking at the aerial view, it looks like all the water is on the right with the exception of #3, and almost all of the OB is to the left.

And as was mentioned before, the doglegs seem to be closer to the tee, forcing nearly everyone to interface them as opposed to only the long hitters.  I also measured a number of fairways and most are pretty narrow, at 20-25 yards and even the few "wide" ones are only 30-35 yards.

[Peter Pallotta]

Yes, simplistic of me but I do like to check tour events/courses to see how the short(er) hitters fare, as somewhat indicative of the quality of the architecture  -- and for a while there on Sunday several of the very short(est), including Stuard and Furyk and Donald we're right in the mix along with the bombers like DJ. Reminds me of how Corey Pavin managed to compete for so many years, ie by holding his own on Par 4s and bettering the scoring average on Par 3s.
P

[Terry Lavin]

In watching intermittently over the weekend I was also struck by the difficulty of putting on those greens. They play there every year, but it seems like they still have problems with line and speed on the greens.

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