Creeping Bluegrass (Poa Reptans) Putting Green Surfaces

[Mike Bodo]

Do any of our esteemed Archies and Supers have experience growing Creeping Bluegrass (Poana reptans) greens and what are your thoughts of perennial bluegrass greens replacing Annual Bluegrass (Poa annua) ones? From what little I've been able to find on the internet due to this being relatively new, Poa Reptans (creeping bluegrass) appears to have all of the benefits of poa annua without the blotchiness and lumpiness you can get with the latter mid-afternoon and beyond as a result of flowering. And because the leaves grow denser, provide a more consistently smooth surface and the root structure grows deeper than other grasses, you can cut it lower and get them to run as fast as Bent.


Two companies, True Putt and Two Putt (weird that they're so close in name), appear to be among the first to market with this, but I'm curious to hear/see what the early results and experiences are.

[John Emerson]

I have some experience with it, but only in a research capacity, and not on a golf course.  It’s not a new variety by any stretch.  It’s been around for decades.  Some companies have decided to market it as “new” and sell it to superintendents.  The only difference is that var. reptans is a perennial, and var. annua is a annual.  What exactly is your situation with this grass?  Are you just curious, or you wanting to plant it, or something else? 
FYI-Lower mowing height DOES NOT = faster greens.  I loathe this comparison.  Surface firmness is the end all be all to speed.  This is a industry misnomer I wish to see eliminated!!

[Mike Bodo]

I have some experience with it, but only in a research capacity, and not on a golf course.  It’s not a new variety by any stretch.  It’s been around for decades.  Some companies have decided to market it as “new” and sell it to superintendents.  The only difference is that var. reptans is a perennial, and var. annua is a annual.  What exactly is your situation with this grass?  Are you just curious, or you wanting to plant it, or something else? 
FYI-Lower mowing height DOES NOT = faster greens.  I loathe this comparison.  Surface firmness is the end all be all to speed.  This is a industry misnomer I wish to see eliminated!!

John, thanks for the reply. I ask more out of curiosity than anything. For instance, my new home course lists its greens as bluegrass (or at least that's what it says on Golf Advisor). To me that's a generic term and can mean a lot of things. They aren't Poa Annua, that much I know, as there's a course closer to me that has those and I've played a number courses with Poa Annua greens and these are not like them. They're not bent either or at least aren't creeping bent. They are very dense with what appears to be a vertical leaf structure and roll very true and nicely. Looking at the few images I've seen of creeping bluegrass greens on the internet, they look very similar to my home courses greens, thus I'm curious if that's what they are (I'll know for sure April 1 when the course opens).


In Michigan the bulk of our courses have bent grass greens, but there are a number of courses (particularly in the Northern part of the state) with Poa Annua. Obviously, there are pros and cons with each. However, much of the argument against Poa Annua greens appear to be addressed and offset with creeping bluegrass (Poa Reptans). If this is the case, the question becomes a) will courses with Poa Annua greens be introduced to Poa Reptans via overseeding to smooth out their rougher edges and perhap take that gras over and will some courses look to replace bent grass greens with perennial bluegrass should the claims of them wearing and weathering better and requiring less water hold true?

[John Emerson]

If you send me an a clear picture of the turf I’ll tell you what it is.  Without seeing it, I’d bet the farm that it’s a mix of poa annua and bentgrass with some bluegrass mixed in...basically a hodgepodge.  Do you know the mowing height by chance?  Every single green I’ve ever seen has some amount of poa annua in it.  It’s inevitable that you will have poa in your greens at some point along the line if you are growing cool season grasses regardless of climate/location.  Poa annua and poa annua var. reptans are the same species.  There is no difference other than life cycle.
And what do you mean by “creeping bluegrass”?  I’ve never heard this term before.  I think you may have lost some lingo in translation possibly. 

[Greg Chambers]

The grass types listed on Golf Advisor are wrong almost 100% of the time...useless information.

[John Emerson]

The grass types listed on Golf Advisor are wrong almost 100% of the time...useless information.

What ☝🏻Said!

[Mike Bodo]

The grass types listed on Golf Advisor are wrong almost 100% of the time...useless information.

Yeah, I questioned that too. Golf Advisor lists Washtenaw's fairways as being bent grass and the greens bluegrass. Methinks they got them switched, as I know the fairways for sure aren't bent.


@John: If you click on the link below you can take a virtual tour of each hole on the course. The resolution is pretty good. Hopefully good enough for you to make a determination. That said, I'm leaning towards them being a hodge-podge.


https://tourmkr.com/t3EeUiKyhG?index=scene_7&hlookat=206&vlookat=0&fov=110


Keep in mind, the majority of these greens have been around over 100 years so I can only imagine what's got in them if they've never been reseeded in that time.

[Steve Okula]

 As a GCS, I tried to nursery grow commercial Poa reptans seed and could not establish a sward. The germination was extremely slow and inconsistent.
There are something like 300 identified varieties of Poa annua, so Poa greens on one course might look completely different than those on another. Poa usually begins infesting a green with coarse, bunch type, yellow-green varieties that produce an abundance of seedheads. When it’s been under a putting green maintenance regimen for several years (or decades) it tends to evolve into a finer, denser and more upright growth habit, though it may still produce a lot of seeds. The best Poa greens are normally found on old well established greens where the varieties most suited to the conditions thrive and become prominent.
Poa-free greens do exist. I managed pure bentgrass greens for three years in Tenerife in the Canary Islands, mainly due to a hot, arid climate and a slightly brackish irrigation water that did nothing to favour the Poa.
 

[Peter Galea]

Years ago I tried Creeping Bluegrass.
I remember it as very seedy.
Not something I continued.

[Bruce Hospes]

It might be a good idea to ask the Superintendent...

[John Emerson]

Mike,


Unfortunately, that’s not a close up enough picture.  Need from a few inches away and throw a coin down in the picture for reference.

The grass types listed on Golf Advisor are wrong almost 100% of the time...useless information.

Yeah, I questioned that too. Golf Advisor lists Washtenaw's fairways as being bent grass and the greens bluegrass. Methinks they got them switched, as I know the fairways for sure aren't bent.


@John: If you click on the link below you can take a virtual tour of each hole on the course. The resolution is pretty good. Hopefully good enough for you to make a determination. That said, I'm leaning towards them being a hodge-podge.


https://tourmkr.com/t3EeUiKyhG?index=scene_7&hlookat=206&vlookat=0&fov=110


Keep in mind, the majority of these greens have been around over 100 years so I can only imagine what's got in them if they've never been reseeded in that time.

[Mike Bodo]

Mike,

Unfortunately, that’s not a close up enough picture.  Need from a few inches away and throw a coin down in the picture for reference.

Will do, John. I'll also ask the Super and or Director of Golf on opening day (April 1). Thanks a bunch!