[Ryan Taylor]

Which do you prefer? Why? (Not which is better)

After playing Rye on Sat and Walton Heath Old on Sun I asked myself this question. I love the ground game, cross wind and strategy of links golf but find the heathland experience to be close to perfect.

Note: This not to detract from Rye. I think it's brilliant and don't understand why it's not talked about more.

[Ally Mcintosh]

I live for links so it wins.


But maybe a heathland for the mid-summer months.


Links October to June.


Heathland July, August.


Both great in September (the best month for golf).

[Thomas Dai]

Links first, heathland a close second. Location - north-south-etc - is important.
Most links, being coastal, are pretty much playable with good ground conditions 12-months p/a whereas heathlands, although essentially sandy, being inland, are often not - it’s more frequently frosty/snowy inland.
Links can be a pain though. Strong winds let alone very strong winds/gals can’t half bugger-up your technique, whereas being inland, heathland are generally less windy.
Both are well ahead of parklands though.
Other categories to consider could also include downland, upland and moorland.
Atb

[Mark_F]

Most links, being coastal, are pretty much playable with good ground conditions 12-months

Are links really playable throughout winter, though, Thomas?
I've played quite a few which have you drop the ball in the semi-rough from November onward.  Or does that just add another (interesting) dimension to them?

[Tommy Williamsen]

I love links for all kinds of reasons. I love the turf, bumpy fairways, wind, the smell of the surf, and the the dunes, and sorry, TD, proximity of the sea. I do like heathland better than American parkland courses.

[Jeff Schley]

I love links for all kinds of reasons. I love the turf, bumpy fairways, wind, the smell of the surf, and the the dunes, and sorry, TD, proximity of the sea. I do like heathland better than American parkland courses.

Tommy is that all that matters? 

[Jon Wiggett]

I like and enjoy both equally. I also love moorland, grassland and hilltop courses. Whilst Links usually offers the greatest variety in challenge all types of course can be very enjoyable.

[Scott Warren]

I like and enjoy both equally. I also love moorland, grassland and hilltop courses. Whilst Links usually offers the greatest variety in challenge all types of course can be very enjoyable.

Golspie members get all of the above in every round!

[Jon Wiggett]

I like and enjoy both equally. I also love moorland, grassland and hilltop courses. Whilst Links usually offers the greatest variety in challenge all types of course can be very enjoyable.

Golspie members get all of the above in every round!

Correct Scott. I find it amazing how well Golspie transitions from Links to Heathland to Parkland and back to Links. Whilst I do not like the par 5 14th at all I think it is mainly to do with it's unnecessary narrowness especially on the second shot. There is plenty of room to double or treble the width to the right whilst maintaining the difficulty of the hole. Having said that, that is to do with presentation and not architecture and playing the 14th is worthwhile by the following 15th which is an absolute gem.


Jon

[Niall C]

Most links, being coastal, are pretty much playable with good ground conditions 12-months

Are links really playable throughout winter, though, Thomas?
I've played quite a few which have you drop the ball in the semi-rough from November onward.  Or does that just add another (interesting) dimension to them?

Mark

That's a fair point but in the sense that the courses don't close because of ground conditions then they can be open all year and with the ball getting a degree of run. When it comes to clubs looking to reduce the wear and tear during the winter I much prefer to play out of the semi than having to hit off a mat.

Niall

[Tom_Doak]

I would love to build a heathland course someday, but I don't know that I will ever get the chance.  That ecosystem does not seem to exist outside of northern Europe, and I'm not sure how much is left that's not "protected" from development now.  I don't think it offers the variety of links terrain, but it is arguably more rare.

[Ira Fishman]

I like and enjoy both equally. I also love moorland, grassland and hilltop courses. Whilst Links usually offers the greatest variety in challenge all types of course can be very enjoyable.

Golspie members get all of the above in every round!

+1. I was just pondering how two far more famous courses—Ballybunion and CPC—have fantastic back to back Par 3s but that 16 and 17 at Golspie are marvelous too.


Ira

[Thomas Dai]

Most links, being coastal, are pretty much playable with good ground conditions 12-months

Are links really playable throughout winter, though, Thomas?
I've played quite a few which have you drop the ball in the semi-rough from November onward.  Or does that just add another (interesting) dimension to them?

Mark
That's a fair point but in the sense that the courses don't close because of ground conditions then they can be open all year and with the ball getting a degree of run. When it comes to clubs looking to reduce the wear and tear during the winter I much prefer to play out of the semi than having to hit off a mat.
Niall

Nicely said Niall. And of course the further south in GB&I terms then the less likelihood of such circumstances, which was why I inserted the “north-south” location point in my earlier post.
Once upon a time though, say 20-30 yrs ago, fairway mats and moving the ball to the side of the fairways didn’t seem to be an option. Maybe a case of more winter golf now being played (perhaps thanks to improved cold weather clothing and footwear?).
Atb

[Tim Gavrich]

I would love to build a heathland course someday, but I don't know that I will ever get the chance.  That ecosystem does not seem to exist outside of northern Europe, and I'm not sure how much is left that's not "protected" from development now.  I don't think it offers the variety of links terrain, but it is arguably more rare.

Tom, you have built a Heathland course...in South Carolina!


How close is the Sedge Valley site to heathland in terms of natural movement?


That there are photos from the great English heathland courses above the beds at Sand Valley feels appropriate to me. The species of vegetation are certainly different in the two places, but SV feels like a pretty good general American analog.

[Niall C]

David

I think the upsurge on fairway mats and playing out of the rough during the winter is more about better conditioning during the summer. You are probably right that the amount of play has gone up in the last 30 years (that's my perception) but probably so has golfers expectations in terms of condition.

Niall

[jeffwarne]

I like and enjoy both equally. I also love moorland, grassland and hilltop courses. Whilst Links usually offers the greatest variety in challenge all types of course can be very enjoyable.

Golspie members get all of the above in every round!

+1
probably a topic for a separate thread...but I am stunned when courses are downgraded for having holes of a different nature.
I think it's really cool when the walk takes you through various landscapes of a property.
i always enjoyed how Portsalon had trees on the upper side of the property, and in play on 13 (and formerly 16-which were probably rightfully removed) Climbing up into the woods to tee off on the epic downhl linksy 14th is one of the better views in golf

[Conley Hurst]

Most links, being coastal, are pretty much playable with good ground conditions 12-months

Are links really playable throughout winter, though, Thomas?
I've played quite a few which have you drop the ball in the semi-rough from November onward.  Or does that just add another (interesting) dimension to them?

When I was at Oxford last year, I played tons of winter golf throughout the southern UK. In my experience, the southern links (i.e. Sandwich, Deal, Rye, Porthcawl) were consistently in better condition during December-March than the Surrey heathland courses. There are exceptions of course. Sunningdale is in top nick pretty much all the time. But many of the heathland courses can get boggy during that time of the year, and their greens don't hold up as well. On the other hand, Rye and Porthcawl are both considered by many to be in their best condition during the winter, particularly Rye.

[Ryan Taylor]

Most links, being coastal, are pretty much playable with good ground conditions 12-months

Are links really playable throughout winter, though, Thomas?
I've played quite a few which have you drop the ball in the semi-rough from November onward.  Or does that just add another (interesting) dimension to them?

When I was at Oxford last year, I played tons of winter golf throughout the southern UK. In my experience, the southern links (i.e. Sandwich, Deal, Rye, Porthcawl) were consistently in better condition during December-March than the Surrey heathland courses. There are exceptions of course. Sunningdale is in top nick pretty much all the time. But many of the heathland courses can get boggy during that time of the year, and their greens don't hold up as well. On the other hand, Rye and Porthcawl are both considered by many to be in their best condition during the winter, particularly Rye.

Rye was absolutely flawless last weekend. Perfect amount of run. Can't even imagine trying to play it in August after a dry summer.

[Kalen Braley]

Pardon the ignorance,


I've tried doing a bit of looking around, but can't quite figure it out... what defines Heathland?  And is Moorland a sub-type in this category or something different?


P.S.  I absolutely love the look of those Heathland courses in the various course reviews.

[Adam Lawrence]

Pardon the ignorance,


I've tried doing a bit of looking around, but can't quite figure it out... what defines Heathland?  And is Moorland a sub-type in this category or something different?


P.S.  I absolutely love the look of those Heathland courses in the various course reviews.

Here's a pretty good definition of lowland heath (the sort that the golf courses of Surrey and Berkshire are on) https://www.wildlifetrusts.org/habitats/heathland-and-moorland/lowland-heath


Moorland by contrast is an upland habitat https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/what-is-a-moorland.html



Both have poor, infertile acidic soil. Key difference I guess (other than elevation) is that moorland is a natural landscape while heath is a created one -- heaths were created by early farmers deforesting areas to graze their flocks. That's why, if not managed, heath returns over time to low quality woodland.

[Peter Pallotta]

It's interesting for an outsider reading this thread to see how the preferences for one golf setting/site over another reflects various ideas about what the game is really all about, ie what most characterizes and defines it, what it requires in its fields of play to be at its best, to offer us the 'golfiest' of golf experiences -- and even more so, what it *doesn't* require from its fields of play and what the game is *not* really all about
P

[Sean_A]

As I grow older I find my preference at least moving toward heathland.  That said, settling solely on heathland is moons away if ever. I guess the issue is links are superior playing surfaces in the winter...if one is willing to brave the often less than desirable winter weather.  Plus, you just can't escape the man-madeness of heathland golf.  Without a doubt heathand courses have been too pampered and made into heathland-parkland hybrids.  Whatever the case may be, I would want to find courses which are shorter, sometimes much shorter than I currently play.

Ciao

[Thomas Dai]

What links and heathland, plus downland, upland, moorland terrain etc, all have in common is that they aren't very good land for growing crops. Hence their availability for grazing animals and vocations like golf.
atb

[Mark Chaplin]

Like many of my mates I’m lucky to enjoy links and heathland memberships. The links are far better in the winter but come the summer both are a delight to play.


Mats are becoming more common in the winter, as a few speculated earlier it’s to reduce winter divot damage and provide better playing conditions in the summer.

[Duncan Cheslett]

Here's a pretty good definition of lowland heath (the sort that the golf courses of Surrey and Berkshire are on) https://www.wildlifetrusts.org/habitats/heathland-and-moorland/lowland-heath


Moorland by contrast is an upland habitat https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/what-is-a-moorland.html



Both have poor, infertile acidic soil. Key difference I guess (other than elevation) is that moorland is a natural landscape while heath is a created one -- heaths were created by early farmers deforesting areas to graze their flocks. That's why, if not managed, heath returns over time to low quality woodland.

As does moorland.


Moorland is generally used for hill farming, with extensive areas also managed for game shooting. Both may include burning, which promotes the growth of young, fresh heather shoots for livestock and red grouse. Without some degree of grazing and/or burning, moorland would in most cases eventually revert to woodland

https://www.wildlifetrusts.org/habitats/heathland-and-moorland/moorland

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