The locals rankings versus that of visitors

[Sean_A]

...if I was relying on someones view I would go for the local over the visitor every time.

Niall

Maybe yes, maybe no.  As with any recommendation, it depends on who is offering it. 

Ciao

[David Davis]

There are rare exception when I will take the word of a local over a well travelled visitor. In that way golf is much the same as food.


If I'm in the UK and the local I happened to ask spent 10 years fine dining in France, I will listen. That is when asking him where to go and eat.


I do find comparatively that depending on the subject locals can usually be trusted. In a small town in Ireland I am confident they will know the best pub to grab a Guinness in.


Golf is not one of the areas that I would give much weight to locals unless I know they are well travelled or have spent an hour talking golf with them. Just too many variables one of the main ones being....ignorance is bliss.

[Niall C]

Sean

I’m dealing in the hypothetical. Imagine you are standing in a pub and you get talking to two strangers. One a keen golfer who is visiting and another equally keen golfer who is a local, who’s recommendation do you take on the local courses ?

David

If your traveller spent 10 years fine dining in France then I’d suggest he wouldn’t be a local unless we were referring to France.

And as a globe trotter and avid belt notcher yourself, are you suggesting that I should take your advice on courses in say, the SE of England, ahead of someone like Mark Chaplin ?

Niall 

[Sean_A]

Sean

I’m dealing in the hypothetical. Imagine you are standing in a pub and you get talking to two strangers. One a keen golfer who is visiting and another equally keen golfer who is a local, who’s recommendation do you take on the local courses ?

Niall

Niall

I would treat your scenario by invoking a Yank rule of thumb...never ask for directions recommendations in a bar.   You may get lucky once in a blue moon, but you may find yourself in the middle of fight.

Ciao

[Kalen Braley]

Niall,

Your last post goes to the crux of the problem.  How do you actually "know" when a local or traveler is who they say they are?

I've met both types who will name drop, say how they've done this and that, traveled to and fro, etc...but at the end of the day unless you know em, you don't know em....

[Niall C]

Kalen

As usual this thread is going off at a tangent as most tend to do which sometimes brings interesting discussions it should be said. But to bring it back to my OP, I'm not really referring to individual opinions, I'm talking about a general consensus for locals and another for visitors. Within each group you will have well travelled (in terms of golf) and the sort who maybe don't play a huge amount of golf other than in their immediate local area or the odd golf holiday.

As a local (ie. in your own area where you live) you will have general idea of what the consensus is amongst the locals in terms of ranking (even if you don't agree with it) while what visitors think could possibly/probably be deduced from magazine rankings, most of which rely on visitors.

So you are dealing with groups of people rather than individuals. Anyway, it wasn't meant to be that scientific and really just a conversation obvious discrepancies between the differing views.

Niall

[Kalen Braley]

Indeed Niall,

That's a great point.  I think myself and others immediately starting jumping to the "who is right/or who can you trust" angle.... 

P.S.  I think it is interesting comparing State Lists to National Lists here in the US.  While most of us agree on the National lists more or less, the state lists are often another animal.  But even then, there are always a few hidden gems in your local area that aren't spoken of here which would be worthy of discussion.  But given so relative few have played them, its hard to have a good discussion.

[Bob Montle]

This is why it is important to "follow" guys whose judgement/opinions you trust.  That sort of insider experience is invaluable to the travelling golfer.

Ciao

Which is where GCA comes in.   My enjoyment from (lower tier?) courses in Scotland such as Hopeman, Rosemont and Anstruther was well worth the time invested in getting there.

[Sean_A]

Kalen

...I'm talking about a general consensus for locals and another for visitors. Within each group you will have well travelled (in terms of golf) and the sort who maybe don't play a huge amount of golf other than in their immediate local area or the odd golf holiday.

Niall

Niall

As I stated in an earlier post, I don't understand the idea of a "general concensus" of local opinion.  There is rarely an outlet for such opinion.  I think the so called general local consensus is heavily compromised by lack of data.  A guy speaks to a very small percentage of local golfers then draws a conclusion.  That sort of lounge wisdom doesn't really do much for me. 

Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

Kalen

...I'm talking about a general consensus for locals and another for visitors. Within each group you will have well travelled (in terms of golf) and the sort who maybe don't play a huge amount of golf other than in their immediate local area or the odd golf holiday.

Niall

Niall

As I stated in an earlier post, I don't understand the idea of a "general concensus" of local opinion.  There is rarely an outlet for such opinion.  I think the so called general local consensus is heavily compromised by lack of data.  A guy speaks to a very small percentage of local golfers then draws a conclusion.  That sort of lounge wisdom doesn't really do much for me. 

Ciao

The global opinion is hindered by lack of data also, Sean. It also has no real outlet for a “general consensus” to be honest.


I think Niall is getting at the few well respected courses that are quite clearly - if sometimes just anecdotally - regarded either higher or lower in the pecking order by people who live in the actual region, including those who know what they are talking about.


Nothing too scientific.

[Sean_A]

Kalen

...I'm talking about a general consensus for locals and another for visitors. Within each group you will have well travelled (in terms of golf) and the sort who maybe don't play a huge amount of golf other than in their immediate local area or the odd golf holiday.

Niall

Niall

As I stated in an earlier post, I don't understand the idea of a "general concensus" of local opinion.  There is rarely an outlet for such opinion.  I think the so called general local consensus is heavily compromised by lack of data.  A guy speaks to a very small percentage of local golfers then draws a conclusion.  That sort of lounge wisdom doesn't really do much for me. 

Ciao

The global opinion is hindered by lack of data also, Sean. It also has no real outlet for a “general consensus” to be honest.

I think Niall is getting at the few well respected courses that are quite clearly - if sometimes just anecdotally - regarded either higher or lower in the pecking order by people who live in the actual region, including those who know what they are talking about.

Nothing too scientific.

Ally

For sure global opinion lacks data and some of the data is not to be trusted.  But that is another reason to find individuals that one trusts. 

I guess I disagree with Niall.  I don't and wouldn't trust local opinion over outsider opinion. They are both opinions...listen to em' all, match them against your preferences, what you've read and photos spied...then go from there. 

Ciao

[Richard Fisher]

I guess I am semi-responsible for this thread, and am glad that harmony seems to be breaking out...all I was trying to get at in the original post was simply that the relative views on courses of local repeat-players, and occasional visitors, will often differ, in part because the first cohort will play said courses rather more frequently in a much greater range of conditions. The GCA-informed visitor will very probably have played a much greater range of courses against which to judge 'merit', but won't necessarily have played these courses in the range of seasons and weathers that some local golfers will have done. Neither view is any more scientific, or 'better' than the other, and we can all ultimately make up our own minds. As far as I am concerned the four Welsh courses I cited are all, in their different ways, special places for a game of golf, and clearly within GCA itself there is considerable debate about their relative merits. As you'll have discerned by now, I put RPGC and RStD jointly first, Aberdovey third, and Pennard fourth (and many of you won't, which is absolutely fine).

One of the (many) special features about RStD (say) is that its membership genuinely ranges from senior figures in the game who serve on various R&A, Golf Wales and ex-LGU committees and who have played golf around the world, to men and women resident locally who have never played anywhere outside Gwynedd. As far as the latter cohort is concerned, RStD is fundamentally their local golf club (for which they pay the equivalent of about $800 per annum): the fact that people want to come from around the UK and beyond to play there is a welcome bonus which helps to keep the subcriptions down (very important in such an economically depressed part of the world). Now that's not quite my own perspective on my beloved RStD, but keeping a diverse membership reasonably content is part of the balancing act that committees at Harlech and other similar British clubs have to perform all the time.

[Niall C]

Richard

You are totally responsible for this thread. It's all you fault !

I don't think there is a "right" or "wrong", just a difference in opinion, but I do find it interesting how on occasion two different groups (ie. locals and visitors) can have generally contrasting views on what courses are best. I'm also just a little surprised that some on here have dismissed the local view so readily although I do wonder if some of those are maybe seeing my bias towards local opinion being an attack on them as visitors ?

Niall

[Sean_A]

Richard

You are totally responsible for this thread. It's all you fault !

I don't think there is a "right" or "wrong", just a difference in opinion, but I do find it interesting how on occasion two different groups (ie. locals and visitors) can have generally contrasting views on what courses are best. I'm also just a little surprised that some on here have dismissed the local view so readily although I do wonder if some of those are maybe seeing my bias towards local opinion being an attack on them as visitors ?

Niall

I am not dismissing local opinion, I don't automatically favour it. 

Ciao

[David Davis]

David

If your traveller spent 10 years fine dining in France then I’d suggest he wouldn’t be a local unless we were referring to France.

And as a globe trotter and avid belt notcher yourself, are you suggesting that I should take your advice on courses in say, the SE of England, ahead of someone like Mark Chaplin ?

Niall

Niall,


Why did you have to go and pick on Mr. Chaplin. Hell, no I'm not saying that. He's been everywhere, so that's exactly my point, if you are saying the average local is Mark then I'll trust the local unless the international traveller is someone like Adam Messix or Tom Doak, then I would carefully weight various factors.


For the record, If Mark is your average local, then indeed, Doak is your average international traveler and you're are living in a bubble I've not experienced in my travels.


Like Sean I'd listen to the local but not too seriously myself unless he's like Mark. Though to be fair it takes all of about 1 minute or less in conversation to know if somebody is full of it when it comes to something like GCA.

[Kalen Braley]

Niall,

I for one think you have made excellent points on this thread.

To me it comes down to both locals and travelers having their own unique and valid points of view.

1)  A well traveled golfer will have sampled lots of different styles and flavors, and certainly can make excellent comparisons between various locales, including the "best" aka highest rated offerings in a region, even if they have very little depth in any particular spot (other than their home base)

2)  Wheres locals will often be the experts on whats local availability and have a much more informed opinion on the differences between courses within reasonable reach of a destination. But there is no doubt a bit more homerism and lack of seeing a bigger picture.