Cool Munis

[James Brown]

Off the top of my head...

East Potomac Park - Washington, DC
North Fulton - Atlanta
Mount Pleasant - Baltimore
Pelham/Split Rock - Bronx, NY
Ed Oliver - Wilmington, DE
Mark Twain - Elmira, NY
Francis Byrne - Orange, NJ

Also, played Swope with Mr. Kavanaugh and it's terrific per his prior post.

Don't want to neglect mentioning terrific recent restorations at George Wright and Franklin Park in Boston.

I would argue that East Potomac Park would have the greatest historical and architectural value if you could restore it to its golden age peak.  It is one of the oldest municipal courses in the country.  Site of the 2nd Amateur Public Links.  It was originally reversible and was teaming with centerline hazards.  And it’s in a great location.  Also, after 100 years of settling of the land, which was fill from creating National Airport, the land is now stable, if low lying.  It just needs a few million yards of sand! 


https://books.google.com/books?id=b96_3rGAU9kC&pg=PA338&lpg=PA338&dq=1923+public+links+championship+east+potomac+park+golf&source=bl&ots=6BUEakntyj&sig=ACfU3U1RaxFN6X8BFz-h_EhlOCr6S3pQbQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiNiN--9OngAhUlhuAKHf4DCwIQ6AEwBHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=1923%20public%20links%20championship%20east%20potomac%20park%20golf&f=false

[Tommy Williamsen]

One of my favorite munis is Pine Ridge outside Baltimore. They held the LPGA tournament in the 70's. It wasn't always in the best condition because of its proximity to the reservoir. I haven't played it in decades but I spent many wonderful days there. Johnny Bass was the head pro for some thirty years and was an institution in the area.

[Tal Oz]

Former site of the LA Open, one of the busiest courses in the country, I think Rancho Park should be on this list.

[Bill Seitz]

Made famous by former poster Jon S, San Clemente Muni, California (Billy Bell?):



http://www.san-clemente.org/recreation-community/golf

San Clemente is great, aside from the greens that get pretty bumpy, especially in the afternoon.  Back nine gets really fun. 


Santa Anita is another that could be made much better with some tree removal and some TLC.

[Adam T]

Hi Adam,
This is a really terrific post! Thanks for putting it out to the discussion group. For perspective, I have played 184 courses to date. A few municipal facilities that could use TLC to become great I would mention are:

• Hunter Memorial Golf Club (Meriden, CT): I grew up in Meriden for most of my early life, and sadly, the city has seen better days. Hunter is the city's course, set in a beautiful wooded area abutting Giuffrida Park at the base of Mount Lamentation, far from the bustle of downtown . It originally opened in 1929 and was designed by R.J. Ross; it was later redesigned entirely by Al Zikorkis. I've had the privilege of playing Hunter's maybe 15-20 times in my life. I often find myself wondering why I did not spend more time at Hunter's when I still lived in the Nutmeg State? The property uses a number of interesting landforms to its advantages, and the movement in the fairways is so natural. There are some truly excellent holes on the course which use a creek for strategy, including #1, #15, and #16. Other highlight holes for me including the challenging 3rd, the 18th-at-Augusta-like-chute on #14, and the handsome 18th. I think the main reason I never played there more were generally shaggy fairways, and somewhat flat-ish greens on certain holes. Many, including the CSGA, recognize the great value in Hunter's bones...I would hope a restoration company might someday too!

• LinRick Golf Course (Columbia, SC): I was traveling in this area for work, and I 'googled' courses near me. LinRick popped up with fascinating reviews. There was resounding love for the course, and yet poor stars for the old, ragged clubhouse. The internet comments' rumor was that on a limited budget, the property focused all finances on the golf course, and not the shop. Upon arrival, I found those reviews to be true in the best way possible! Why on earth anyone would take time to rate this place poorly due to its clubhouse is beyond me though - the golf course is what it SHOULD be all about, IMO! Though I know nothing about its history, I will say that LinRick was a top 2 or 3 'value' course in my list; the day I played was $25 for 18 with a cart, quirky Par 73, snakes everywhere, and some of the nicest staff I have met. The front nine feels like a classic, traditional course, following the rolling Carolina hills naturally with a terrific opening stretch from 1-3. The back nine was a bit more modern, but I left feeling flabbergasted (at first, negatively, but over time, positively) about the wild, fun shots that were demanded of the player. The course could definitely use some TLC, but all in all, I was amazed at what I saw out there for what I know is a modest budget.

Some of my favorite municipal courses which have undergone updates/renovation and emerged spectacular include Shennecossett, Keney Park, Winter Park, and Bacon Park.

A few courses that came to mind "on the fringe" are:

• Timberlin Golf Course (Berlin, CT): A pretty solid track, not really in need of a 'facelift' right now, but also one I hope doesn't go away.
• Asheboro Municipal (Asheboro, NC): 9 hole Donald Ross design that wish had stronger conditioning when I experienced it.
• Hillandale Golf Course (Durham, NC): I read once that the course was built in 1910, and you can see some classic design features on certain holes. I have been disappointed by course conditions here.
• Goodwin Park Golf Course (Hartford, CT): Another Hartford-muni, like Keney Park, though I'm just not sure I see the potential for a full-blown renovation.

[Jeff Schley]

Former site of the LA Open, one of the busiest courses in the country, I think Rancho Park should be on this list.

Agreed.  I’d also lobby for Los Verdes down in Palos Verdes and has some ocean views.  You get at least 5-6 hours to enjoy the views as play is slow as molasses.

[Bill Shamleffer]

Found this amazing online publication about the DC public courses.  Covers many aspects of the histories of muni golf in DC, including integration and architectural details.  For instance, Travis designed one course with two reversible nines.


Many good photos and images.  Check it out.


https://www.nps.gov/gis/storymaps/cascade/v1/index.html?appid=6e9210d774964f68804ffcd10b8681d3

[Bill Shamleffer]

I played Waveland Golf Course in Des Moines alomst 20 years ago.  It was a fun course, that could have greatly benefited from some restoration and care.


The one thing that concerns me per restorations of munis is the risk that the end result can possibly price out the former regular golfers.  This would seem to me to be one of primary balancing acts concerning spending significant money on munis.


I personally would consider for an example, some of the following questions when considering if I would want to support proposed renovations to my local muni:
1. Is the course currently serving a need for enough people to leave as it is?
2. Will extra money spent on the course preserve its use for the current clientele, while bringing in additional golfers & revenue to justify and compensate the extra spent money?
3. Is there a risk of a golf version of gentrification of the course so that the prior regulars can no longer afford the new version, or feel at home at the new version?
4. Or is the course currently underutilized, and the new version will better serve a larger number of the community?


Also, I do not consider the "financial justification" of a course to be the same as the traditional ROI of a for profit business operation.  "Financial justification" for a public service must be viewed differently.
1. What is the benefit to the community short and long term?
2. What are the opportunity costs of the available public funds?
3. What are the alternatives or lack of alternatives of the public service verse what is available through other means (for profit operations and charities)/
4. What are the means of the all parts of the community to obtain that public benefit from outside of government sources?


None of these are all encompassing.  We all will bring different rationals and questions.  But I do worry about the negative impact of muni upgrades upon the current users, as a possible over look.
Fortunately, many of the muni investments I have seen have had limited negative consequences for the pre-restoration users.
But I believe this is a current concern to the proposed Chicago golf course renovation at the Obama Presidential Library site.


For those in the know, how many former regular users of Bethpage Black and Harding Park, feel like the course was "taken away from them"?
And are the justified in this belief, or is the post-renovated facility better serving the community as a whole?

[B.Ross]

split rock, more so than the pelham bay, could really be special with some TLC & pruning.


i'd add rancho park to the list, more so than wilson harding.


you could throw santa anita & brookside #1 on there as well. both could use some tree clearance & green expansion.

[Jason Topp]

I played Waveland Golf Course in Des Moines alomst 20 years ago.  It was a fun course, that could have greatly benefited from some restoration and care.


The one thing that concerns me per restorations of munis is the risk that the end result can possibly price out the former regular golfers.  This would seem to me to be one of primary balancing acts concerning spending significant money on munis.

I agree on both of these points.  Waveland was the course where I learned the game.  The course could be very good.   Some of the favorable angles I learned over the years are now in the rough.  Making it a great course would involve blowing up the greens and rebuilding them in addition to a bunch of tree removal and changed grass lines.  But would the cost of such a project be worth it?  If it drives up fees it will hurt many customers.  If it does not drive up fees or play money was spent for no return. 

[Ben Stephens]

Thorpe Wood in Peterborough used to be a monster at 7000 plus yards by Alliss and Thomas. They have changed the course slightly to accommodate a driving range however there is a better course out there. Its sister Orton Meadows has a cracking front nine that you would have thought you were in Florida the back nine is the opposite and rather short.

There is Priors Hall in Corby which I have not played but others have said it would be a lot better with course improvements.

Dundee - there is Harry Colt's Caird Park and the other one at Camperdown which are challenging inland courses.

Leicester - Western Park had very good potential to be even better now that has gone. Oadby Municipal closed down a few years ago and it has been reborn as a Driving Range and 9 hole course - the inner racecourse holes are no longer. Humberstone is the last remaining municipal and it is a challenging course

It's probably wrong of me but I am SERIOUSLY uninterested in 7,000 yard monsters by Alliss and Thomas 

Thorpe Wood is the most unlike Alliss and Thomas course it is more like a CK Cotton or Charles Lawrie style course - the most British style Thomas has had his name on. The bunkers there are tired and out of play and it could do with some updating. Still its one of the best munis in the East Midlands/Cambridge area.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

I'd like to mention Heaton Park in north Manchester. I think it is now pay-and-play. It's not in good condition (or wasn't when I last played it), there are some (dangerously) blind holes and there are a couple of heroic water carries. If you can get out when the course is not occupied by a four ball playing with half a set of clubs between them it is fascinating. There used to be a heroic do-or-die carry over a gipsy encampment!

[MCirba]

Unless you're living in a well-to-do community like, say...West Palm Beach, I think the only model that works for restoration efforts is a private/public partnership with the former completely funding the project.   

[Bill Shamleffer]

Unless you're living in a well-to-do community like, say...West Palm Beach, I think the only model that works for restoration efforts is a private/public partnership with the former completely funding the project.

The City of Hartford, Ct. in just the last few years, took over their courses after having them run by an outside company, and spent $5,000,000 on what has appeared to be a very successful renovation of Keney Golf Course.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

I should also have mentioned Warren, a 9-hole public course in Wallasey. It's very basic but it is a links and has some very sporting holes. I've only played it once - 30 or 40 years ago - but I remember it with affection. Condition of course terrible, but when it's only a few pounds it has its merits.

[Matthew Petersen]

Former site of the LA Open, one of the busiest courses in the country, I think Rancho Park should be on this list.

Yes, and not much needs to be done. Some tree removal, some tree trimming and some bunker work. But the contours are already great and the greens are pretty good.

[Tim Leahy]

Are courses like Rancho and Los Verdes that have full tee sheets from sunup to sundown seven days a week as is going to put up any money or closures of their courses for an upgrade?

[Tal Oz]

You're probably right Tim. There's many factors at play, but even if they did do an overhaul (tree maintenance, green expansion, general upkeep) they probably couldn't charge any more from the city. Rancho had a $5 price hike a few years back and that was enough to remove it from the busiest course in the country moniker. Or so I've heard.

I live 5 mins from Rancho and play it no more than a handful of times a year in favor of going out to Rustic Canyon most every weekend 40+ mins away.

[Bill Seitz]

Los Verdes is a county course, and rates are set by the County.  It's managed by American Golf.  Part of their rent to the county goes into a capital improvements fund, which is far more likely to be used on things like the clubhouse, cart barn, etc.  I worked at a county course in LA for a few years while I was in college.  I think they spent some money on a new irrigation system before I got there, but I'm not sure if that was at the urging of the management company that I worked for, or the county (it needed it, as the place was basically a rock field before that).  Major capital improvements while I was there were done the range/putting green, restaurant, and cart barns.  Not a lot of money was put back into the course. 

[Andy Shulman]

I'll nominate Langston GC, another DC course.  Not DC area, but actually in DC, right beside crumbling RFK Stadium.  East Potomac has the monument views, but Langston is the better course, has a storied history and could definitely benefit from some TLC. 


From Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langston_Golf_Course#RFK_Stadium_parking_lot_issue):  Langston Golf Course[/size] is an 18-hole [/color][/size]golf course[/color][/size] in [/color][/size]Washington, D.C.[/color][/size], established in 1939.[/color][/size] It was named for [/color][/size]John Mercer Langston[/color][/size], an [/color][/size]African American[/color][/size] who was the first dean of the [/color][/size]Howard University School of Law[/color][/size], the first president of Virginia Normal and Collegiate Institute (now [/color][/size]Virginia State University[/color][/size]), and the first African American elected to the [/color][/size]United States Congress[/color][/size] from [/color][/size]Virginia[/color][/size].[/color][/size][2][/font][/size][/color][3][/font][/size][/color] It was the second [/font][/color][/size]racially desegregated[/color][/size] golf course in the District of Columbia, and in 1991 its first nine holes were added to the [/color][/size]National Register of Historic Places[/color][/size].[/color]

[John Keenan]

Gleneagles in San Francisco. A nine hole course with a quirky but quite enjoyable clubhouse.

[A.G._Crockett]

Arrowhead Pointe, which is a state park course inside the Richard B. Russell State Park near Elberton, GA would count not only as one of the coolest munis, but also among the greatest Hidden Gems in the world.  I believe Arrowhead Pointe is now #5 or #6 on the Golfweek Best Munis list, and it is every bit that good.  On top of that, it costs under $50 to play, even on a weekend, and there is NEVER anybody on the golf course.  I cannot recommend it highly enough.
As far as "cool", though, it's hard to beat the Dr. Charles L. Sifford Golf Course, in Charlotte, NC.  Originally called Bonnie Brae, it was the first public course in Charlotte/Mecklenburg; 18 holes until I-77 ate 9 holes.  More significantly, the charter under which the land was donated specified that it would always be a golf course, and that the golf course would be "White Only".  Sifford, who grew up in Charlotte was, of course, unable to play there until after a landmark civil rights case in the '50's.  The remaining 9 holes were reworked (by either Tom Jackson or Clyde Johnston; forgive me for not remembering which) and are the home of the First Tee of Charlotte.  On each tee box is a monument with a plaque detailing both the history of the course and Sifford's remarkable career.   THAT is cool...

[Scott Senior]

I'll nominate Langston GC, another DC course.  Not DC area, but actually in DC, right beside crumbling RFK Stadium.  East Potomac has the monument views, but Langston is the better course, has a storied history and could definitely benefit from some TLC.


In "another life" I parked in East Potomac's parking lot overnight after seeing the Grateful Dead at RFK. Around sunrise I got a tap on my VW Bus's window (it was a wake up call....). I believe it was superintendent....he offered me a cup of coffee and asked me to move my van so the DC police would not give me any problems! It was a wonderful gesture, he was very kind. After seeing this post I will make a point to play there. Fun memories!!


From Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langston_Golf_Course#RFK_Stadium_parking_lot_issue):  Langston Golf Course is an 18-hole golf course in Washington, D.C., established in 1939. It was named for John Mercer Langston, an African American who was the first dean of the Howard University School of Law, the first president of Virginia Normal and Collegiate Institute (now Virginia State University), and the first African American elected to the United States Congress from Virginia.[2][3] It was the second racially desegregated golf course in the District of Columbia, and in 1991 its first nine holes were added to the National Register of Historic Places.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Adam -
Lakeview, City of Mississauga Ontario.
Herbert Strong.
Hosted the Canadian Open a few times in the 20s
Won by Silver Scot Tommy Armour
Elegant greens
P

Peter beat me to it. Lakeview is super cool. The green surfaces are incredibly varied, and all are remarkable. The course is laid out over a nice, sandy property directly across the street from The Toronto Golf Club.

[Scott Weersing]

You can add Belmont Golf Course in Richmond to the list.


I have not played it but it has potential. http://www.friedegg.co/golf-courses/proposed-belmont-changes