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Steve Sayre

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Brad Klein on Dick Wilson and Bay Hill
« on: March 05, 2019, 10:21:10 AM »
This article has been up on Golf Advisor for a year, and you may have already seen it. I just came across it and enjoyed the quick read.


https://www.golfadvisor.com/articles/the-original-forgotten-golf-course-architect-of-arnold-palmers-bay-hill-club-lodge


"Dick Wilson, the architect who designed the course in 1961 and whose routing is still in place today, usually goes unacknowledged. And yet in his day he was a major figure. Or at lease close to being one."








Tim Gavrich

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Re: Brad Klein on Dick Wilson and Bay Hill
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2019, 10:41:52 AM »
The Mountain View Course at Callaway Gardens in GA was one of my favorite courses on our college schedule, and Pine Tree is my favorite FL course not named Mountain Lake. Dick Wilson was terrific, IMO.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Brad Klein on Dick Wilson and Bay Hill
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2019, 10:49:31 AM »
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Joe Bausch

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Re: Brad Klein on Dick Wilson and Bay Hill
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2019, 10:56:08 AM »
The Mountain View Course at Callaway Gardens in GA was one of my favorite courses on our college schedule, and Pine Tree is my favorite FL course not named Mountain Lake. Dick Wilson was terrific, IMO.

Pine Tree is very cool.  Photos from my visit in March 2014:

http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/PineTree/index.html

Wilson did some courses here in the Delaware Valley, two of my favorites being Wilmington North and Bidermann.

Bidermann photos from May 2017:

http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Bidermann2/index.html

Wilmington North photos from April 2017:

http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/WilmingtonNorth/index.html



@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Brad Klein on Dick Wilson and Bay Hill
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2019, 12:20:45 PM »

The flat sand/steep bank bunkers in that photo are not what most would consider Wilson trademark bunkers.  But, it looks like he may have cut the green well below natural grade to get it near water level.


Brad mentions his construction crew.  At La Costa, where a mafia related earthmover did the earthwork (not sure if Wilson got a shaper there) some of the bunker work wasn't as good, particularly the north extension and front nine of what is now the Legends course, which were built last, supposedly more under the direction of Lee than Wilson.  Instead of being cut in to the normal mounding surrounding the sand, they were often placed on top of the mounds somewhat awkwardly.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Anthony_Nysse

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Re: Brad Klein on Dick Wilson and Bay Hill
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2019, 05:47:43 AM »

The flat sand/steep bank bunkers in that photo are not what most would consider Wilson trademark bunkers.  But, it looks like he may have cut the green well below natural grade to get it near water level.


Brad mentions his construction crew.  At La Costa, where a mafia related earthmover did the earthwork (not sure if Wilson got a shaper there) some of the bunker work wasn't as good, particularly the north extension and front nine of what is now the Legends course, which were built last, supposedly more under the direction of Lee than Wilson.  Instead of being cut in to the normal mounding surrounding the sand, they were often placed on top of the mounds somewhat awkwardly.



Jeff,
  The bunkers in the photo were done by Arnold Palmer/Ed Seay. The course as put back to a much more Wilson-like design in 2012 or 2013.
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Matthew Rose

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Re: Brad Klein on Dick Wilson and Bay Hill
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2019, 05:56:06 AM »
I don't think that photo is correct.... that looks like the 18th hole circa 1990s.

In the 80s that green had a wooden bulkhead. I'm not sure what it looked like in the 60s.
American-Australian. Trackman Course Guy. Fatalistic sports fan. Drummer. Bass player. Father. Cat lover.

Kyle Harris

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Re: Brad Klein on Dick Wilson and Bay Hill
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2019, 06:12:32 AM »
The Dick Wilson -> Joe Lee family tree is almost criminally underappreciated...

...and under-restored.
http://kylewharris.com

Constantly blamed by 8-handicaps for their 7 missed 12-footers each round.

Thank you for changing the font of your posts. It makes them easier to scroll past.

Mike_Young

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Re: Brad Klein on Dick Wilson and Bay Hill
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2019, 07:29:49 AM »
The Dick Wilson -> Joe Lee family tree is almost criminally underappreciated...

...and under-restored.
Wilson was much better than RTJ.  He really got under RTJ skin. 
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Ira Fishman

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Re: Brad Klein on Dick Wilson and Bay Hill
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2019, 08:21:51 AM »
I only played one Wilson/Lee--Cog Hill #4--but I played it a lot in the late 1970s and early 1980s and have commented before that I think it gets short shrift here (although reports about the Rees Jones renovation do sound terrible).  My uneducated sense is that Wilson and Lee get lumped into the RTJ category, but at least Cog Hill was as strategic as it was penal.


Ira

Anthony_Nysse

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Re: Brad Klein on Dick Wilson and Bay Hill
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2019, 08:30:42 AM »
The Dick Wilson -> Joe Lee family tree is almost criminally underappreciated...

...and under-restored.
Wilson was much better than RTJ.  He really got under RTJ skin.



Sidebar...


https://www.si.com/vault/1962/07/02/597990/golfs-battling-architects
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Lou_Duran

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Re: Brad Klein on Dick Wilson and Bay Hill
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2019, 09:47:53 AM »
Tony,


Thanks for posting the RTJ/Wilson article.  I don't know if Wilson was a better GCA than RTJ, but I don't recall a Wilson course I haven't enjoyed.  I can't say that about RTJ, though one of my favorites is his.  Wilson reminds me a lot of Texas architect Ralph Plummer in their approach to design and build, objectives, and manner.  The following from the article- variety, balance, flexibility, capacity- are design principles probably more critical 50 years later as the golf economy continues to right-size.

"A golf course should require equal use of every aspect of the game, rather than make a disproportionate demand on one or two phases, such as driving or putting," says Wilson. Merion does this.

To varying extents both Jones and Wilson have tried to suit their courses to a balanced golf game. They have gone in for long tees (some of them up to and over 100 yards) and large greens (8,000 to 12,000 square feet) that supply an endless variety of tee and pin positions. Their courses, as a result, create the same interesting challenge for pro and duffer alike. "With shapely, well-designed greens and long tees," says Jones, who first implemented his theories with the Peachtree course in 1948, "we can establish 2,500 different combinations on a golf course. The course never has to play the same way twice."
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 09:50:00 AM by Lou_Duran »

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Brad Klein on Dick Wilson and Bay Hill
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2019, 11:12:10 AM »
Dick Wilson was one of the best course architects of the post-World War II era, but alcoholism kept him from greater achievements...Ed Sherman writes in 2009


https://www.golfdigest.com/story/gw20090209sherman
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

SB

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Re: Brad Klein on Dick Wilson and Bay Hill
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2019, 08:40:40 AM »
There's a fantastic book that I've only seen once about Dick Wilson that includes some fantastic pictures of his best courses during construction.  It was probably from the 80's but is amazing and really shows his artistry.

John Kavanaugh

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Re: Brad Klein on Dick Wilson and Bay Hill
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2019, 08:53:22 AM »
I recently played Bent Pine in Vero Beach. It's a Joe Lee. I was shocked how a course built for what even I would consider old people had so many forced carries over bunkers on to the greens. I was equally surprised how if you force an old man to hit the ball in the air he can until his dying day. I think modern architects have made it too easy on old people of late. If you make a golfer hit the ball well he eventually will. All these open front run the ball along the ground courses have made me lazy. I need to play more courses like Bent Pine, or buy a 7 wood.


Note: I hit the iconic Bent Pine located on the 18th hole. I wish it well.

Tim Gavrich

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Re: Brad Klein on Dick Wilson and Bay Hill
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2019, 06:24:40 PM »
I recently played Bent Pine in Vero Beach. It's a Joe Lee. I was shocked how a course built for what even I would consider old people had so many forced carries over bunkers on to the greens. I was equally surprised how if you force an old man to hit the ball in the air he can until his dying day. I think modern architects have made it too easy on old people of late. If you make a golfer hit the ball well he eventually will. All these open front run the ball along the ground courses have made me lazy. I need to play more courses like Bent Pine, or buy a 7 wood.


Note: I hit the iconic Bent Pine located on the 18th hole. I wish it well.
The destigmatization of graphite shafts has added years onto the average golf lifespan. XXIO driver, 3 wood and hybrid have revolutionized my 70 year old dad's game.
Senior Writer, GolfPass