The PGA in May - No. 2: Courses IN, Courses OUT:

[V. Kmetz]

As the first thread touched, one of the chief GCA concerns for such a move was that it wouldn't make much of an impact in the diversification of courses that get to be profiled and examined; and as bad as that might be, it might be worse that a one-time showing in a weather-winter comprimised event (that wouldn't have been at issue in August) could take the course out of rotation forever...


While it can always change over a 15 year period, the PGA has, in fact, announced the sites for the next 13 years, and so we know where the immediate fulcrum of this may be revealed.


Going off the list, I notice the following courses, who have hosted the PGA in recent decades, off the list for the next 13 of them...


Medinah, Hazeltine, Oakland Hills, Whistling Straits, Sahalee, Atlanta AC... nor are recent US Open venues (modern or not) Chambers, Erin Hills or Merion...


And both Hazeltine and Whistling Straits are getting a Ryder Cup... so cross them off the list. Are there big losses for the profile/fun of seeing PGA NOT played off the remainder?


At the same time...Aronimink is a new course in, Harding Park is a new course in...but these are not new REGIONS to bring golf, while the industrial midwest has hardly a thign to watch/attend...


So is that the fault or influence of the move to May... that Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, Indiana, and Ohio cannot possibly, safely host a tournament until after Memorial Day.


And will the gains of Aronimink's profile... Harding's profile... the playing of Vahalla, Kiaweh and Southern Hills in better local weather conditions equate to the losses of Oakland Hills and Medinah and much Midwest TV golf?


Lastly, it has got to be the "facility" of Congressional that makes it right for hosting, right?  I mean (even though I played it when I was young, had stars in my eyes, and it was a PGA stop) does anyone get a warm or nuanced feeling of GCA watching competition at that course?


cheers  vk

[Tom_Doak]

VK:  Oakland Hills will be closed for a year for a total reconstruction:  I can’t imagine they would be doing that if they hadn’t had discussions with the USGA about another US Open.  By the same token, it probably won’t be announced until the work is complete - same as Merion and Southern Hills - because the USGA likes to pretend they didn’t require the host clubs to do $15m renovations.


Not many will miss Sahalee or Atlanta Athletic Club as major venues, except for Jerry Pate.  Both cities have better venues to play.

[V. Kmetz]

VK:  Oakland Hills will be closed for a year for a total reconstruction:  I can’t imagine they would be doing that if they hadn’t had discussions with the USGA about another US Open.  By the same token, it probably won’t be announced until the work is complete - same as Merion and Southern Hills - because the USGA likes to pretend they didn’t require the host clubs to do $15m renovations.


Not many will miss Sahalee or Atlanta Athletic Club as major venues, except for Jerry Pate.  Both cities have better venues to play.

That;s kind of what I was driving at...


1. Are the profile virtues of the venues IN (but possibly vices to those courses) worth the courses OUT (Sahalee, AAC)? (You say, "out courses weren't that worthy of the profile anyway)
2. Yet what of any geographic diversity that a May move might bring (but even in initial answer, we cut to the chase and say "Money talks/everythign else crawls"
3. And besides personal faves is there any burning, ubiquitously-held, common opinion about where top championship golf should be played where its not (or for a long time?) ...whether that's just your conscience or your rational opinion (for anyone, not just you TD).


And this is all bearing in mind that many are circumspect about whether or not elite championship TV golf is at all a good thing for the continued innovative practice of GCA.

[Tom_Doak]

besides personal faves is there any burning, ubiquitously-held, common opinion about where top championship golf should be played where its not (or for a long time?) ...whether that's just your conscience or your rational opinion (for anyone, not just you TD).

I no longer have any strong opinion about where championships "should" be held.  For many years I was a traditionalist, because I felt that going back to places like Winged Foot and Oakland Hills once every ten years gave a good set of snapshots of how the game was changing over time:  for example, I remember Hale Irwin hitting his 4-wood and 2-iron into the 16th and 18th at Winged Foot to win on +7, and I remember Davis Love hitting the same clubs off the tee a lot when he won the PGA thirty years later.


But it turned out that was TOO clear of a picture of how the game was changing, so it was leading to the unintended consequence of the governing bodies making changes to those traditional venues in order to fog the windows.  So, now, I'd be just as happy if they would go to newer courses and leave those old ones alone . . . but sadly, the memberships of those clubs are still thirsty to host majors, even at the expense of changing their courses.


As for moving the championship around the country geographically, every time they've done it, you hear them address how moving into a "new market" will bring out big crowds and lots of $$$.  So, you can pretend that they want people across America to get to go see a major, but that's not why they are doing it.  If there's a good venue for it, great, but let's not play the PGA Championship in Dallas just because it's a big market.  [Oh, wait . . . ]

[Mike Bodo]

As the first thread touched, one of the chief GCA concerns for such a move was that it wouldn't make much of an impact in the diversification of courses that get to be profiled and examined; and as bad as that might be, it might be worse that a one-time showing in a weather-winter comprimised event (that wouldn't have been at issue in August) could take the course out of rotation forever...


Going off the list, I notice the following courses, who have hosted the PGA in recent decades, off the list for the next 13 of them...


Medinah, Hazeltine, Oakland Hills, Whistling Straits, Sahalee, Atlanta AC... nor are recent US Open venues (modern or not) Chambers, Erin Hills or Merion...


And both Hazeltine and Whistling Straits are getting a Ryder Cup... so cross them off the list. Are there big losses for the profile/fun of seeing PGA NOT played off the remainder?


At the same time...Aronimink is a new course in, Harding Park is a new course in...but these are not new REGIONS to bring golf, while the industrial midwest has hardly a thign to watch/attend...


So is that the fault or influence of the move to May... that Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, Indiana, and Ohio cannot possibly, safely host a tournament until after Memorial Day.

If weather interrupted championships were a concern of the PGA of America in their decision for leaving the aforementioned states and championship courses they have out of the rota, what does one make of Oak Hill's inclusion in 2023? The course is actually further North of the 40th parallel than Oakland Hills, Medniah, Olympia Fields, Crooked Stick, Inverness, etc. and can run afoul with unpredictable weather that time of the year purely as a result of its proximity to Lake Ontario. Lake effect snow, while highly unlikely, could occur during the championship.


I think the selection of Oak Hill is a litmus test for the rest of the championship courses located between the 40th and 45th parallels. If successful, you may see the PGA bring the championship to the aforementioned courses and perhaps even Whistling Straits, Erin Hills, Hazeltine, etc. However, should the weather be horrendous at Oak Hill it will likely preclude these courses from ever hosting a championship as a result of the move to May.