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John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0


I'm about a +1.



Teacher speak. If this is a gambling thread...

Ira Fishman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Ira doubling down...he must know something...


Nah, I just have found that a bold statement can keep folks interested in a topic.


Ira

Peter Pallotta

Exactly what a guy who knows something would say!
You may never venture out of doors except to play golf and maybe if it wasn't for your wife you wouldn't have any friends -- but you sure didn't just fall out of a turnip truck either.
No country bumpkin you.


Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
In an era of overused superalitives, we may forget just how great Miller was as a player. There are exactly two active players who have won more PGA events than Miller. Tiger and Phil.

I will bet even money that no active player will get to 25 wins. And it is not about fields. Go back to watch the 1975 Masters.

I remember the 63 like it was yesterday because it was magical.

We really do take too much for granted today.

Ira

Ira, I figured I'd pull up your original post for context.  There are only 3 players who have been active more or less for the last 30 years... that have 25 wins or more. Tiger, Phil, and Vijay.

Is your position that the Tour is too competitive now for anyone to reach 25? Or that golf produces fewer special players who can dominate enough to reach 25?

P.S.  Jeff, given Ira didn't post a limit on the amount, I guess there is none.  I'd be willing to put down a few Benjamins on DJ  or Rory give the stipulated timelines
« Last Edit: February 25, 2019, 10:15:14 AM by Kalen Braley »

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Jeff,


Your point about longevity is a good one. I am 61 so let’s limit it to me turning 75 (with luck). Charity of one’s choice. I will PM you with the unit.


Ira
you're cutting off three top players before they reach 40?
Bryson D (5 wins)
and Justin Thomas(10 wins)
and Jordan Spieth (11 wins)
all of whom are now the age Miller was when he had his most productive win year
seems the rules are changing.....
esp with 40 being the new 30.

 they'll all be active after you're 75 in 14 years
In your case I'm sure you'll be around to see 90 :) I'm not far behind you so you gotta stick around so I can gloat.
rather than 3-1 you can just donate the unit each time one hits 25 wins :)

« Last Edit: February 26, 2019, 08:52:46 AM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Ira Fishman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Peter,


If I could predict the future, I would have been able to retire long ago.



Kalen,


I am just making the point that it is really difficult to win 25 times whatever era.  We do not always appreciate how great these guys really are.


Jeff,


I am glad that you have confidence in my longevity.  I accept your amendment and will make a contribution to your favorite charity every time a Pro reaches 25 so long as in my infirmity, you remind me.


Ira

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
This thread will be his legacy!
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Mike Bodo

  • Karma: +0/-0
All I can say is that Johnny Miller was my inspiration and reason for getting involved in the sport of golf. First as a caddie and then as a player. I loved his swing, look and the demeanor which he carried on the golf course. I was never a Jack fan growing up and always rooted against him if Miller was in the hunt. The '75 masters was the pinnacle for me. The battle royale, if you will between Miller, Weiskopf and Nicklaus. It's the first golf tournament I watched intently from beginning to end and I was not even 10 at the time. I just remember being on pins and needles when Miller addressed his putt on 18 praying he'd make it to force a playoff. Unfortunately, it didn't happen, but I was hooked on the sport following that tournament and really ever since.


Had Miller maintained his practice ethos and drive after the '75 season he could have easily dominated the sport into the 80's. Yeah, he won a couple of PGA tournaments in '76 and the open Championship that year, but he wasn't the same player then as he was in after he won the U.S. Open in '73, '74 and '75. He had a mini comeback in the early 80's, but at that point he couldn't putt worth a lick and was winning on pure talent alone. He didn't practice that much, let alone play.


Although his commentating legacy will likely outshine his playing career, I'll always remember the way he would get in a zone and just knock the flagstick out of the hole. There's been no purer iron player before or since, IMHO. He had all the shots and could work the ball left to right, right to left, low, high, knock-down you name it. I still go to the Masters Youtube channel at least once or twice a year and watch the final round of the '75 Masters hoping for a different outcome. But alas, the Golden Bear always triumphs in the end. I learned to appreciate Jack later in life. Really, after the '86 Masters. I didn't like him because he always used to beat my guy. The same reason Arnie fans didn't care for him either when he first came on the scene.
"90% of all putts left short are missed." - Yogi Berra

Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Has Johnny also retired from his design business?   Played one of his courses and starter mentioned a different srchoitect has a proposal for work on the course. Thought that they would have stayed with the original architect, if available.

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0


Had Miller maintained his practice ethos and drive after the '75 season he could have easily dominated the sport into the 80's. Yeah, he won a couple of PGA tournaments in '76 and the open Championship that year, but he wasn't the same player then as he was in after he won the U.S. Open in '73, '74 and '75. He had a mini comeback in the early 80's, but at that point he couldn't putt worth a lick and was winning on pure talent alone. He didn't practice that much, let alone play.




I was big admirier of Johnny and the '75 Masters-my first as a golfer. In fact he hit a ball that landed in my crotch on the par 3 course (#8)and after failing to apologize or evn acknowledge the crowd at all, he chipped it in. An unknown woman berated him and told him it had hit me and that he should apologize;his terse reply was "on the bounce right?" she said no "ON THE FLY" which was true in at least 2 ways-LOL. he flipped me the ball which was pretty cool


as far as your comments on "easily dominated if he had practiced"-well if that was easy he would've practiced.
We'll never know but that really means nothing.
Potential and talent don't win tournaments-the PGA and mini tours are loaded with wasted talent.
Johnny was brilliant for a few years, and always a brilliant ballstriker, but putting is part of the game too.
He had a "slump" later in the 70's from working on his land and developing the wrong muscles (his words) and was a devoted family man-every player faces these choices, but you don't get to add more wins or majors just because of potential or lack of desire and priorities.
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Mike Bodo

  • Karma: +0/-0


Had Miller maintained his practice ethos and drive after the '75 season he could have easily dominated the sport into the 80's. Yeah, he won a couple of PGA tournaments in '76 and the open Championship that year, but he wasn't the same player then as he was in after he won the U.S. Open in '73, '74 and '75. He had a mini comeback in the early 80's, but at that point he couldn't putt worth a lick and was winning on pure talent alone. He didn't practice that much, let alone play.




I was big admirier of Johnny and the '75 Masters-my first as a golfer. In fact he hit a ball that landed in my crotch on the par 3 course (#8)and after failing to apologize or evn acknowledge the crowd at all, he chipped it in. An unknown woman berated him and told him it had hit me and that he should apologize;his terse reply was "on the bounce right?" she said no "ON THE FLY" which was true in at least 2 ways-LOL. he flipped me the ball which was pretty cool


as far as your comments on "easily dominated if he had practiced"-well if that was easy he would've practiced.
We'll never know but that really means nothing.
Potential and talent don't win tournaments-the PGA and mini tours are loaded with wasted talent.
Johnny was brilliant for a few years, and always a brilliant ballstriker, but putting is part of the game too.
He had a "slump" later in the 70's from working on his land and developing the wrong muscles (his words) and was a devoted family man-every player faces these choices, but you don't get to add more wins or majors just because of potential or lack of desire and priorities.
Hilarious story of your encounter with JM at the Master's!  ;D ;D [size=78%] I agree with your closing comments, but I also like to think what could have been had Miller placed a little more emphasis on golf than he did following the '76 season. Jack, I believe, had as many kids or close to as Johnny and played approximately the same number of tournaments he did in subsequent years, yet his skills remained sharp while Johnny's languished over that same period. [/size]
"90% of all putts left short are missed." - Yogi Berra

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0


Had Miller maintained his practice ethos and drive after the '75 season he could have easily dominated the sport into the 80's. Yeah, he won a couple of PGA tournaments in '76 and the open Championship that year, but he wasn't the same player then as he was in after he won the U.S. Open in '73, '74 and '75. He had a mini comeback in the early 80's, but at that point he couldn't putt worth a lick and was winning on pure talent alone. He didn't practice that much, let alone play.




I was big admirier of Johnny and the '75 Masters-my first as a golfer. In fact he hit a ball that landed in my crotch on the par 3 course (#8)and after failing to apologize or evn acknowledge the crowd at all, he chipped it in. An unknown woman berated him and told him it had hit me and that he should apologize;his terse reply was "on the bounce right?" she said no "ON THE FLY" which was true in at least 2 ways-LOL. he flipped me the ball which was pretty cool


as far as your comments on "easily dominated if he had practiced"-well if that was easy he would've practiced.
We'll never know but that really means nothing.
Potential and talent don't win tournaments-the PGA and mini tours are loaded with wasted talent.
Johnny was brilliant for a few years, and always a brilliant ballstriker, but putting is part of the game too.
He had a "slump" later in the 70's from working on his land and developing the wrong muscles (his words) and was a devoted family man-every player faces these choices, but you don't get to add more wins or majors just because of potential or lack of desire and priorities.
Hilarious story of your encounter with JM at the Master's!  ;D ;D [size=78%] I agree with your closing comments, but I also like to think what could have been had Miller placed a little more emphasis on golf than he did following the '76 season. Jack, I believe, had as many kids or close to as Johnny and played approximately the same number of tournaments he did in subsequent years, yet his skills remained sharp while Johnny's languished over that same period. [/size]


Jack had power to fall back on and still be long enough as he aged....to go with a strong and strategic mind.....and might've been the best in contention putter of his generation
Yes jack was the original legend in his spare time
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
There was a period of a few years when he always seemed to be in contention at The Open. Johnny Millers bunker at Carnoustie for example.
Atb