How slow can they go?

[MCirba]

Does Pine Valley have a slow play problem?

Good question, and I'm hoping Archie can answer.

I can tell you that any members taking longer than 4 hours at Merion are subject to discipline, and guests playing along with said members are strongly encouraged to keep to that pace.

[MCirba]

Lou Duran,

No floaters but every sport needs to effectively regulate equipment to deal with the physical constraints of the playing field.   Even George Crump argued for a standardized ball for competitions and I'd support that.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

I agree with Lou.

Slow players can play slowly with any equipment. Yes, they have to walk an extra 40 yards now and then back to another tee box instead of going to the one by the green… but 18 40-yard walks doesn't add up to an extra 90 minutes on a round, or even half an hour.

[Steve Kline]

Seems to me the reality is that PGA Tour players, as a whole, want, and at the very least accept, a slow pace of play. A few key players (like Tiger) taking a stand and going to play somewhere else would be all it takes. See the recent articles on shorts during practice rounds and they note that Tiger was instrumental in making that happen when Stevie showed up at one of the prime time Showdowns in shorts. The tour official told him to put on pants or he wouldn’t caddie. Tiger suggested that he would be playing in Europe the next year.


Reality is that Tiger drives the ratings and is the reason I watch any Tour golf at all, which is true for many viewers. If he wanted faster play and put the right pressure on with even just a couple of other players then the players could make it happen. Because without Tiger those purses are going to go back down at some point.

[Ian Mackenzie]

From solely my own TV-watching experience Sunday...it was SO slow and SO boring that I just turned it off.
Came back to catch the last 1-2 holes and there were 5 to go. No, thanks.


Checked with the golf.com app on my iPad later that night to see who eventually won.


If more people do that and the TV ratings go down which, in turn, reduces ad exposure, the sponsors will eventually complain to the tour.


In the end, "It's all about the Benjamins"...

[John Kavanaugh]

Does Pine Valley have a slow play problem?

Good question, and I'm hoping Archie can answer.

I can tell you that any members taking longer than 4 hours at Merion are subject to discipline, and guests playing along with said members are strongly encouraged to keep to that pace.

Of course Merion, or Pine Valley, or NGLA, or Prairie Dunes, or Sand Hills, or etc etc doesn't have a problem. This is a fanboy problem.

[John Connolly]

Slow play on tour isn't slow enough if there are this many people complaining about it.

[MCirba]

I agree with Lou.

Slow players can play slowly with any equipment. Yes, they have to walk an extra 40 yards now and then back to another tee box instead of going to the one by the green… but 18 40-yard walks doesn't add up to an extra 90 minutes on a round, or even half an hour.

Erik,

My theory isn't that longer driving is causing slower play, as I explained prior.

My theory is that we've overcomplicated the game in numerous ways between the time I started playing around 1972 and today such that I'm betting the time of the average timed round on tour in 1972 and the average timed round on tour in 2019 follow the same rate of acceleration as tour Driving Distance over the same time period.

Does anyone know how long it took Jacklin and Trevino to play the final round of the 1972 Open at Muirfield, recognizing they were playing a few groups behind the turtle in the field, a hard-charging Jack Nicklaus that day who was vying for the professional Grand Slam?   

We keep hearing how these guys are playing for millions so they need 5 hours and 47 minutes, which is complete bullshit.

[John Kavanaugh]

Slow play was created by the golfing elite to promote and sustain private club membership. There are few other reasons for the modern golfer to join. We need members!!!

[Kalen Braley]

Hilarious as usual Barney,


If you want to blame anyone, you can put it on the teachers who insist from an early age thier students have a deliberate pre-shot routine and always be willing to re-start it as often as needed...

[John Kavanaugh]

That is the beauty of uber penal architecture. No children.

[Peter Pallotta]

Mike -
you're suggesting that technology and psychology go hand in hand; that advances in the former are mirrored by an obsession with the latter; that, just as today's players 'need' a 460 cc driver (whereas 190 cc used to serve for decades) so too do modern tour pros 'need' a team of physical & mental health professionals and elaborate pre-shot routines (whereas they used to get by on nothing more than bourbon & bile); and that as course lengths have become irrelevant (with ever increasing distance gains) the pros have turned their attention inwards, to the space between their ears, as the 'driver' of better golf, lower scores, and an advantage over the field.
I think you're on to something: those old pros sure played quickly & well with that old equipment, straw fedoras, 'teams' of one, some late nights at the bar, and no other 'thoughts' than winning every single time out.

[John Kavanaugh]

Maybe they had a side piece waiting. Have you guys even played golf?

[Kalen Braley]

Pete,


I don't doubt that, but that's also why any one of the current top 25 would wipe the floor with anyone not named Jack or Arnie from that era....they got all those wins cause thier competition wasn't up to par..

[Dave McCollum]

I liked that suggestion to build time-to-play-each-shot into Shotlink.  They already have trained volunteers running that gear on every hole.  Just add some timers.


The shot clock doesn't seem that hard either:  18 clocks on 18 carts, 18 volunteers to run them and record violations.  You wouldn't need carts on short holes.


Personally, I never watch live golf on TV.  If I want to watch, I DVR it.  I was traveling this weekend and at a place with no DVR.  Dreadful.     

[John Kavanaugh]

The modern golfer couldn't touch Walter Hagen if they lived his lifestyle. They would check into Passions after the first month and beg for kale infusions. Please never forget that the old guys didn't make a living being on tour. They were hustlers. They had to get off the course to cash out.

[John Kavanaugh]

We all play a little faster when the end of the rainbow is at the 19th hole.

[John Kavanaugh]

Did you guys see how fast Phil was playing during the final round at Pebble? He didn't want to get home Monday afternoon and find another pair of classic Jordan's in his kids closet.

[Matthew Petersen]

I can sympathize that Sunday was a brutally difficult day of golf. I was in LA (not a Riviera) and it was cold and very windy. Those guys had played a lot of golf. So I get they were probably beat and there was a lot on the line and blah blah blah.


None of it excuses the fact that JB Holmes doesn't even bother to be ready before it's his turn. On 15, he outdrove both Scott and Thomas, watched them both play their second shots, and only then when it was his turn, started a conversation with his caddie about what his yardage was. That's not just taking too long over the ball (like a Cantlay) or wasting time hoping the wind dies (which it seems like everyone does on windy days), that's simply awful etiquette. Not only does that slow everyone down, playing with that guy is the most obnoxious thing in the world. What have you been doing while the other two guys were getting their yardages and hitting their shots?

[Erik J. Barzeski]

My theory is that we've overcomplicated the game in numerous ways between the time I started playing around 1972 and today such that I'm betting the time of the average timed round on tour in 1972 and the average timed round on tour in 2019 follow the same rate of acceleration as tour Driving Distance over the same time period.

So, a coincidence? Okay…?

Slow play was created by the golfing elite to promote and sustain private club membership. There are few other reasons for the modern golfer to join. We need members!!!

Keep on trolling.

[John Kavanaugh]

Erik,


What is the #1 reason people join private clubs. Slow play!!!

[John Kavanaugh]

Tour players aren't slow because they are playing for a ton of money. They play slow because they have a ton of money. Do away with private planes or make them drive to the next tournament and see what happens.

[Pete_Pittock]

I am pretty sure that the final group was not put on the clock because they were within CBS's broadcast window.  It is entertainment, not golf.  But I agree with most of the posits.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

What is the #1 reason people join private clubs. Slow play!!!

No.

[John Kavanaugh]

Erik,


Why then do golfers join private clubs?