How slow can they go?

[archie_struthers]

5 hours and 47 minutes for a threesome to play yesterday in the final group at Riviera, it was awful to watch. Just couldn't bear to think how bad that would be for my friends and I, what say you?



 


Just don't know how golf on TV can get any more boring. I love the game and just can't take the time to watch them bake the weekly cake. Possibly the only way this changes if tv money starts to dry up due to inability to forecast the time it takes to finish

[Erik J. Barzeski]

Morning Drive just showed JB Holmes first putt on 17. It took him over 2:30 to hit it.

They also showed Justin Thomas taking about 2:38 to hit a wedge or something from the rough on a hole (maybe 16?).

JT is almost always faster than JB, but… they can all be slow at times, too. Even Adam Scott, who wanted the Tour to penalize him to make a point, said "it's never gonna change."

[Wayne_Kozun]

The galleries should start shaming them. Start chants of “While we're young!  While we're young!” after sixty seconds.


Or add one penalty stroke for every five minutes beyond a four hour round. Want to take five hours - sure, but we will add twelve strokes to your score. Doesn’t horse jumping work like that?

[archie_struthers]

 




Its really horrible to play so slow ...we have a few guys who really struggle to keep up with the group, but they have improved immensely. Its unfathomable to me to play in five hours much less 5.47 minutes .. totally ridiculous

[Brock Lynch]

I was out at Riviera on Saturday. Walking down #17 and around to #16 we watched the group of Grace, Jacobson, and Uihlein. We realized that the group in front of them was at least 20 minutes ahead. We joked about yelling out something to bring attention to how far they were behind. The pre-shot routines have become ridiculously long. I know the stakes are high, but there has to be a limit to how much time they take on each shot. With all of the statistical data that is gathered, why isn't someone keeping track of "time lost/gained per hole" relative to the field for every player. Position in the field and number strokes taken would also be factored in. Then, like all other stats the PGA Tour keeps, make them public!


 

[Craig Sweet]

and it all trickles down to your local club.

[Mike Bodo]

Its really horrible to play so slow ...we have a few guys who really struggle to keep up with the group, but they have improved immensely. Its unfathomable to me to play in five hours much less 5.47 minutes .. totally ridiculous

And these are threesome's, mind you, not foursomes. Imagine how long it would have taken had they a fourth in the group? I shudder anytime I see J.B. Holmes near or atop of the leader-board on the weekends, as I know it's going to be slog of a tournament. I have nothing against the person, but I can't stand his slow play. It's agonizing to watch and I find myself rooting against him as a result.

[Mike Bodo]

BTW, here's a  link to a great op-ed piece on this very subject following yesterday's final round and Riviera.


http://read.nxtbook.com/global_golf_post/global_golf_post/20190218/fairholm_col.html

[Thomas Dai]

Where’s Rory Sabatini when we need him?
I actually kind of like Wayne’s idea above. A whole bunch of folks standing close by shouting “Get a ........... move on, get a ......... move on, etc” has a certain appeal. Make amusing TV too.

Atb

[MCirba]

Why, oh why is this tolerated?   

If golf becomes unwatchable by hard-core golf course aficionados on television, does the PGA Tour think that's "growing the game".

[Joe Leenheer]

I believe the Euro tour tried shot clocks for an exhibition event? 


I'm not entirely in love with the idea, but I don't hate it.

[Steve Kline]

I'm just curious. How many of you have played high-level competitive golf (D1 college, top am, top mid-am)?

[Joe Leenheer]

I'm just curious. How many of you have played high-level competitive golf (D1 college, top am, top mid-am)?

I'd never call my game "high-level"...but I gave up my amateur status back in 2006.


Uncertain that ones ability should change ones perspective on pace of play.  The problem with pace is you only care about it when it's not your fault (or your just an arse).  I've been the slow one before (albeit it was likely due to train wreck of a hole and me trying to "keep it together") and I've been with the slow one who steps off 50 yard pitch shots and waits for the right wind.


Either way, without a physical clock and clear penalty, I don't see this problem coming to an end.

[Pat Burke]

Only as fast as the slowest player in the field most times.


1) need a desire to fix the pace
2) need to push the slow player(s) not the group the slow player is in. 
3) shots, not fines.
4) penalties grow
5) with all the statistics, time per shot played/per putt should be done to identify the problem players


But, if a group is easily in position behind group ahead, it’s tough to worry about how long a player takes to hit
I went to the Inverrary tournament as a kid.  Watched Nicklaus for a couple holes and couldn’t stand it......went and watched Trevino 
I was probably about 10-12?   

[jeffwarne]

I'm just curious. How many of you have played high-level competitive golf (D1 college, top am, top mid-am)?

Slow is slow.
If JB takes/needs 2.5 minutes on a shot he's cheating because he's gaining an advantage AND putting me playing with him or behind him at a disadvantage
We have cameras watching to see if a ball movrs, but we're not speaking to slow players that disrupt others flow.
Koepka and Scott are right.
I always root against JB after his ice act at Torrey

[Steve Kline]

I'm just curious. How many of you have played high-level competitive golf (D1 college, top am, top mid-am)?

I'd never call my game "high-level"...but I gave up my amateur status back in 2006.


Uncertain that ones ability should change ones perspective on pace of play.  The problem with pace is you only care about it when it's not your fault (or your just an arse).  I've been the slow one before (albeit it was likely due to train wreck of a hole and me trying to "keep it together") and I've been with the slow one who steps off 50 yard pitch shots and waits for the right wind.


Either way, without a physical clock and clear penalty, I don't see this problem coming to an end.

My point is not to advocate for slow play. I hate slow play as a reasonably fast player myself. But, as a fast player, it's amazing how a tournament changes things. The allotted time seems to go by much faster to me. In an ordinary round of golf, any thing not less than 4 hours seems like an eternity to me. But, four hours seems to go by pretty quick for a threesome in a tournament. You have played in those tournaments, but for those that haven't, it's not the same as a round with your buddies on the weekend.


Again, I'm not excusing slow play like that of J.B. Holmes. But, the whole - I can't believe it took a threesome 4 something hours to play on Tour - comes from not having played tournament golf. This weekend you needed to factor in the weather (rain will slow you down), the wind (that slows you down more), the wind on fast greens when you have to putt everything out (further slowing), and general tiredness/weariness from the non-stop golf for three days.

[Steve Kline]

What if you did something like chess were you were allowed XXX minutes of time to hit all your shots for the round? That way you could take longer over a difficult shot but play fast on easier ones.


Maybe for every minute over you add a stroke to your score.



You would need a timer for each group, which would add difficulty/cost to running the tournament.

[James Reader]

The Shot Clock event on the European Tour last year seemed to me to be a fairly simple idea that worked.  If I remember right (and I may have the details slightly off) the first person to play on each shot had 50 seconds, the 2nd and 3rd had 40 seconds.  Each player had the option to call for an extension once or twice a round if he needed it.  Clocks were on a cart following each group and if you missed your time you got a one shot penalty. There were no penalties at all over the first two days and only one or two over the weekend.
Those players who spoke about it all seemed to like it (no doubt there were moans from a few in the background) and the overall pace of play was better.
I stopped watching last night because it was so tedious.  If the tours want to attract more people to watch golf (and surely they can see that has to be there aim long-term) something significant needs to be done.

[Peter Pallotta]

Byron Nelson won 11 events in a row in less time than it took that final group on Sunday.
You really can play great golf by just stepping up and hitting it.
Watching all those ticks and routines and hemming & hawing, it looked to me like they all had some kind of collective mental illness -- maybe the American Psychiatric Association should pathologize it and call it Slow Play Syndrome (SPS)   

[MCirba]

Curious if this issue has grown worse over the years...does anyone know how long it took Jacklin & Trevino to play the final round of The Open at Muirfield in 1972?

[John Kavanaugh]

Curious if this issue has grown worse over the years...does anyone know how long it took Jacklin & Trevino to play the final round of The Open at Muirfield in 1972?

What did the winning caddie get paid? Nowhere near $5,000. Time and money ain't what it was 47 years ago. You slow down the game just a tad for everyone with their hand out and you get 5hrs+. Like I always say...JB has a point.

[Kalen Braley]

Even Baseball is addressing this issue and continues to tweak the rules for timely play....

I know the PGA Tour is different, but I don't understand why the snowflakes can't/won't be subject to these kind of rules....

[MCirba]

Fair point, Mr. Kavanaugh, but playing with persimmon and balata could have led to even slower play as each contestant tried to ensure the ball they were playing remained round. 

Also, they were playing a few groups behind one Mr. Jack Nicklaus, notoriously the turtle in the field in those days.

Anyone know the total time for Jacko & the Merry Mex?

[Lou_Duran]

I'm just curious. How many of you have played high-level competitive golf (D1 college, top am, top mid-am)?

Judging from many years of site-related outings, a very small %.


It is bothersome nevertheless.  Played a lower level four-day senior tournament this past week where the average round approached 5 hours on a clean course playing under 6,600 yards in perfect weather.  It was hard adjusting from my typical 3-3:10 casual rounds, but no one held a gun to my head.


I have wondered if limiting the role of the caddie to just carrying clubs and tidying up after his player would make a big difference.  I am sure that a GPS-based system could be developed to provide perpetual distances from the bag to the hole location, and the front and back of the greens.  Maybe the tour could add a time clock to each player's bag that is triggered by a trained official when he should be ready to play (40 seconds is way too long).  Pros and high-level amateurs just take too long to hit shots.  And too many of us mimic these players without any chance of achieving their results. 

[John Kavanaugh]

Lou,


Please. You are as slow as anyone who has ever logged onto this site or owns a device that could.