Australia courses - my take

[Charles Lund]

Jeff,


Thanks for sharing information about your trip.  I have been there now on 14 different trips and spent close to a year playing golf on those trips.  You were fortunate to have played all the top tier courses on a single trip.  What I liked most about traveling in Australia was the accessibility of top tier courses, the welcoming hospitality and friendliness of Aussies I met, and the quality of public access courses.


Having thought of Australia the same way I think of Ireland or Scotland, as places to travel to for golf over and over has allowed me to sample a large number of so called lower tier courses of remarkable quality, in a concentrated area.  Checking out the Doak ratngs of courses in the Melbourne and Sandbelt area, the Mornington Peninsula, and Bellarine Peninsula area, i count about 25 different courses with two ratings of five or higher. The concentration of quality courses speaks to the benefit of extended stays, given that there are so many off the radar courses that are excellent playing experiences. 


Charles Lund

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[Bruce Hardie]

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Still if that's not your cup of tee, its probably best you missed the National. There's 8 blind tee shots on the Moonah course alone.

Ok Anthony, you have got me curious on this on.  I play National Moonah probably every second weekend and have since it opened about 18 years ago.  12 and 13 tee shots are blind but for the life of me I can't find 6 more.


As for the snakes, you see one every so often but almost all are either indifferent to you and sunning themselves in full view or pretty keen to get out of your way.  I'd take a close encounter with a snake over one with a bear any day of the week.

I guess it depends on where the wind is coming from and where you hit 'em but about half my tee shots disappeared from view before they landed.. I would also nominate the 9th, 10th and 11th in that category. Also the second shot on 15. The 12th is a par 3 in which you can't quite see the surface of the hole but you can see the pin and the outlines of the green surface, so not a blind tee shot in my view. 


The 13th is particularly bad... I almost killed a lady on the fairway last time despite waiting over 10 mins on the tee before hitting. Not sure what she was doing all that time, but she wasn't in the mood to ask.

Anthony your comments regarding the Moonah course are riddled with innacuracies. Hole numbers are incorrect and your comments on blindness are a mix of puzzling and just plain wrong. Perhaps best to refrain from such definite comments about yourself you don’t know that well.

Mathew,


I meant the Par 5 12th.. But by all means continue to be a dick when other people make an error... because you are indeed perfect yourself.

e.g.  "Perhaps best to refrain from such definite comments about yourself you don’t know that well."

Would you mind sharing what language that is?

You made a definitive statement about the number of blind tee shots, claiming 8. You might not believe that is true because you hide your expansion on that answer in the illegible font size, where you claim 9, 10 and 11 are blind. 9 you can see half the fairway, and it is the 'good' half. 10 has all the reachable fairway in view. 100% of it. There might be some micro-undulation that mean you don't see you ball when it comes to rest in a slight hollow, but this is not what makes a shot blind. More than half of the fairway is visible from the tee on 11 as well and the mowing lines strongly hint that there is landing area behind the dunes.


Unless you've got some new definition of blind you want to share, your statement is unsupported.

[MKrohn]

Thanks for the write up Jeff, like MM, I'm always interested in what people think when they are here, I'm pretty hard on my own peoples behaviour, glad you had fun.


Like Mac and Scott I have been wandering around Australian golf courses for the best part of 40 years and have seen the grand total of 2 snakes, albeit one was at Cape Wickham. The thing seemed more scared of us and slithered off. If you want to be worried about something, worry about the great whites taking a piece out of you, this has become a weekly occurrence.


I'm one who doesn't particularly like blind tee shots and have assumed I'm in the minority (given punters love for RCD) however perhaps because I know NSW well, I never really associated it with same. I think you may have mentioned familiarity making things easier in a subsequent post. Moonah at The National is a favourite because I love the driving areas and apart from the 'big dipper" par 4 over the back of the course, can't really recall much in the way of completely blind shots.


A perspective from a Sydneysider on Melbourne bunkering and a player not in the same league as Mac and Lukas. I do at times find them very difficult, its generally been Victoria GC where I have problems (can't recall any issues at Metro) when the wind has blown some out. That said, when they are good they are fantastic, perfect hard bases with a covering of softer sand.


When I go to Melbourne/Mornington I have the low bounce wedge as Lukas suggested and a driving iron for the wind. They are getting packed this week, one day at St Andrews Beach and 3 days at Victoria.

[Chris Kane]

When I go to Melbourne/Mornington I have the low bounce wedge as Lukas suggested and a driving iron for the wind. They are getting packed this week, one day at St Andrews Beach and 3 days at Victoria.

Kevin, do you use the low bounce wedge on the Mornington Peninsula? I find it's a danger bat outside the sandbelt...trying to nip it in bunkers with a lot more sand is a recipe for disaster!

[Brian Walshe]

Obviously the talk of snakes has made them more active.  My playing partners had a little one cross in front of them Sunday afternoon.   I'd expect that most of the Australians on GCA would have seen more snakes than Clayts given they tend to be in the rough and the last time he missed a fairway was 2004. 


Mick,


Standard Sandbelt setup is usually an medium bounce sand wedge and a low bounce lob wedge.  That gives you a few options depending on how firm the sand is.  Still a spot open for you Friday night if you get back from StAB at a reasonable time.

[Mark_F]

9 you can see half the fairway

Which would mean half of the fairway is blind, no?

More than half of the fairway is visible from the tee on 11 as well

How much more?  3%? 5%? 10%

and the mowing lines strongly hint that there is landing area behind the dunes.

How do they do that?  With placards? A song and dance show? Showgirls on the hill with arrows?

A significant part of the first fairway is blind from the tee. You aren't going to see where your ball has ended up on 3 if it goes over the spine. I seem to recall that 2, although somewhat flat, the hazard or hill on the left made it entirely possible to not know where your ball was going to go. 6 and 16 also had teeshots where the ball was likely to disappear from view after landing.

How much of the green of 5 is above you?  Half?  More than half?

Unless you've got some new definition of blind you want to share, your statement is unsupported.

Do National members have to take a short course in being condescending twats before they are admitted?

I guess it depends on where the wind is coming from and where you hit 'em but about half my tee shots disappeared from view before they landed.

Sounds like a rather succinct and self-explanatory sentence.

Of course, Anthony would have been more accurate if he had just commented on the general ordinariness of the Moonah course, the repetitive nature of the greens, the horrifically bad set of par threes, and, 3rd and 11th holes notwithstanding, how boring the rest of the par fours are.

[Bruce Hardie]

So half blind= blind?

[Mike_DeVries]

Obviously the talk of snakes has made them more active.  My playing partners had a little one cross in front of them Sunday afternoon.   I'd expect that most of the Australians on GCA would have seen more snakes than Clayts given they tend to be in the rough and the last time he missed a fairway was 2004. 

Clayts is a playah!!!!

[Kalen Braley]

So half blind= blind?

If you dig a hole and put half the dirt back in, do you have half a hole, or just a smaller hole??

Perhaps blind shots are partially blind or totally blind... 

[Mark_F]

So half blind= blind?

No.  Half blind could mean a number of things. 

Blind is blind.

[Tom_Doak]

I had a discussion a few years ago with a very good player (a woman) who thought Royal Melbourne West was horribly overrated.  I’d never heard anyone take that position before, so I asked why, and it was because she couldn’t see her tee shot land on so many holes - not just the up and over on 4, but the finicky things like not being able to see clearly over the bunker on 2W or 12W or 18.


It did not change my opinion of the course at all, but it did make me more aware that people create their own definitions and rules for architecture out of their personal pet peeves, and it profoundly impacts their views overall. 


I do it myself with my distaste for man-made ponds.  Jack Nicklaus absolutely hates when fairway bunkers are straight across from one another instead of staggered.  I’m sure everyone has their own.  I should start a separate thread as this has not much to do with Australia, but I’m too busy today.

[Mike_Clayton]

Tom,


I likewise heard a very good player - a woman - say 'Royal Melbourne doesn't reward good shots'


She was partly right - it only really rewards (if getting a reasonably long approach within 5-12 feet is a measure) great shots. Hitting 'good' shots to 40 feet clearly didn't agree with her.

[Matthew Mollica]

I had a discussion a few years ago with a very good player (a woman) who thought Royal Melbourne West was horribly overrated.  I’d never heard anyone take that position before, so I asked why, and it was because she couldn’t see her tee shot land on so many holes - not just the up and over on 4, but the finicky things like not being able to see clearly over the bunker on 2W or 12W or 18W.

Interesting isn’t it.


I have a friend who loves the sense of anticipation and drama of seeing his ball bounce on the far side of the drive hazards on 2W, 4W, 6W, 12W. Even though the landing area is not as clearly visible as your described female player may wish, my friend thinks the visualisation of the bounce and confirmation of the carry is a great asset. Give the player thrills, as Alister would say...


 

[Tom_Doak]

I have a friend who loves the sense of anticipation and drama of seeing his ball bounce on the far side of the drive hazards on 2W, 4W, 6W, 12W. Even though the landing area is not as clearly visible as your described female player may wish, my friend thinks the visualisation of the bounce and confirmation of the carry is a great asset. Give the player thrills, as Alister would say...

Matthew:


It helps that in Australia, the ball actually bounces high enough to be seen!

[Anthony Butler]

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Still if that's not your cup of tee, its probably best you missed the National. There's 8 blind tee shots on the Moonah course alone.

Ok Anthony, you have got me curious on this on.  I play National Moonah probably every second weekend and have since it opened about 18 years ago.  12 and 13 tee shots are blind but for the life of me I can't find 6 more.


As for the snakes, you see one every so often but almost all are either indifferent to you and sunning themselves in full view or pretty keen to get out of your way.  I'd take a close encounter with a snake over one with a bear any day of the week.

I guess it depends on where the wind is coming from and where you hit 'em but about half my tee shots disappeared from view before they landed.. I would also nominate the 9th, 10th and 11th in that category. Also the second shot on 15. The 12th is a par 3 in which you can't quite see the surface of the hole but you can see the pin and the outlines of the green surface, so not a blind tee shot in my view. 


The 13th is particularly bad... I almost killed a lady on the fairway last time despite waiting over 10 mins on the tee before hitting. Not sure what she was doing all that time, but she wasn't in the mood to ask.

Anthony your comments regarding the Moonah course are riddled with innacuracies. Hole numbers are incorrect and your comments on blindness are a mix of puzzling and just plain wrong. Perhaps best to refrain from such definite comments about yourself you don’t know that well.

Mathew,


I meant the Par 5 12th.. But by all means continue to be a dick when other people make an error... because you are indeed perfect yourself.

e.g.  "Perhaps best to refrain from such definite comments about yourself you don’t know that well."

Would you mind sharing what language that is?

You made a definitive statement about the number of blind tee shots, claiming 8. You might not believe that is true because you hide your expansion on that answer in the illegible font size, where you claim 9, 10 and 11 are blind. 9 you can see half the fairway, and it is the 'good' half. 10 has all the reachable fairway in view. 100% of it. There might be some micro-undulation that mean you don't see you ball when it comes to rest in a slight hollow, but this is not what makes a shot blind. More than half of the fairway is visible from the tee on 11 as well and the mowing lines strongly hint that there is landing area behind the dunes.


Unless you've got some new definition of blind you want to share, your statement is unsupported.

I keep forgetting how many short knockers there are from Melbourne on this site... ;-)

[Scott Warren]

Given the discussion earlier in the thread re Australian fauna that will kill you, I present:


https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/animals/terrifying-scenes-as-redback-eats-baby-brown-snake-for-dinner/news-story/50a82b2dd1a36e8793f39200ed264082

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