[Tommy Williamsen]

On the front page of the website Ran suggests that if you are a GCA geek you would notice the centerline bunker more than the cliff. I have played this hole and am sad to announce that I saw the cliff first.

[Ira Fishman]

There is not a golfer alive, amateur or pro, who would not notice the cliff first. Now, if the bunker surrounded trees as on CPC17, then maybe not, but I doubt it.


Ira

[Pete_Pittock]

You probably booked your round at Sand Hollow because of the cliff holes, not the bunkering scheme

[JMEvensky]

There is not a golfer alive, amateur or pro, who would not notice the cliff first. Now, if the bunker surrounded trees as on CPC17, then maybe not, but I doubt it.


Ira

Agreed--and I think you could include golf course architects as well.

[Mark_Fine]

I hate to say it but my eye did go to that bunker but honestly it looked forced to me and out of place and I usually love center-line hazards.  I have not played the course and this is why you don’t judge courses without seeing them in person.   

[Matt_Cohn]

If the title were "What's the first thing you notice in this picture?" it would be a much fairer question.

[Ian_L]

I hate to say it but my eye did go to that bunker but honestly it looked forced to me and out of place and I usually love center-line hazards.  I have not played the course and this is why you don’t judge courses without seeing them in person.

With Mark's appropriate caveat (have not played the course either), it seems that taking out the left half of the bunker would tempt some players to skirt the cliff for a better angle. From the picture it doesn't look like there is enough room to either side, so you'd have to lay back or try to carry.


I look forward to being proven wrong by those who have been!

[Matthew Rose]

Well I saw three bunkers, but only because it said "was the bunker the first thing you noticed?"

If the question was "what is the first thing you noticed", then I'd probably say the cliff.

[Jon Wiggett]

Does the bunker affect play any more than if it were just the slope there kicking the ball left? I ask because it is hard to tell from a photo but to the eye it looks fairly irrelevant as I am not sure it is placed where you would want to land the ball if it were not there.

[Thomas Dai]

At first I wondered if the bunker was there to stop an idiot driving a buggy too close to the cliff edge and suffering a long vertical drop but as the bunker doesn't follow along the entire cliff edge I guess this isn't the reason! Best not tell the H&S brigade!
atb

[Ronald Montesano]

Tongue met cheek as mind raced and fingers typed

[Ally Mcintosh]

For those who know the course, is the central bunker too big or the overall corridor too narrow to implement the strategy that it is intending?


The idea is a great one if it works in practice. Just looks like the central bunker should be smaller and the fairway cut on the right should flash further up the hill.

[Buck Wolter]

The one on the edge of the cliff is what distracted me --almost looks photoshopped.

[Kalen Braley]

For me it was the double cut plaid-like fairway.  Then the cliff edge, and finally the center-line bunker.  Guess I failed...

[Stephen Davis]

I have played here dozens of times. It is a wonderful hole on a wonderful course. It is really well placed IMO. The shape of the green determines the best shot coming in. What you cant see is the back pin falls off and is really hard to get to from the left. Right is a good play to any pin, but I think left to a front pin is a bit more favorable as the slope of the hill will hold your ball well where as there is a slight raise on the front right that may kick you ball away from the flag. You could lay up, but the shot is long, so you are definitely given the incentive to either challenge left or right or grab the driver. It is driveable for many, and there is a large collection area left of the pin to a very uphill green. Lots of great stuff going on on this hole. AND yes the cliff is the first thing anyone notices, especially because it is there on the previous hole and is in your mind.

[Mike Hendren]

Assuming the red stakes continue down the left the cliff is a sure one-shot penalty while the bunker is a half-shot penalty.  Also, you can lay up short of the bunker, but not the cliff.

Bogey

Stupid question of the day:  Must there be water to constitute a lateral water hazard?  If so, would the cliff not be marked by white stakes, effectively making the penalty two shots?

[Tommy Williamsen]

I should have added that the bunker Ran meant was the centerline bunker. My mistake.

[John_Cullum]

Stupid question of the day:  Must there be water to constitute a lateral water hazard?  If so, would the cliff not be marked by white stakes, effectively making the penalty two shots?

Lateral hazards are NLE. We now have "penalty areas." No h2o required.

[William_G]

who cares?


did you look at her make-up or her heels, at least you looked.......



any pic or hole is the sum of it's parts


Sand Hollow and Zion are great places


lame post

[Brett Wiesley]

I agree with Stephen, this is a great golf hole.


The cliff edge is already in your mind from the previous hole, and when you get on the tee of this short par 4 you have several options.  All with risk/reward, all in all a great hole.  As mentioned, what you don't see is the infinity edge at the back of the green, and when approaching from the right side then off the left of the green as well.  If you don't nail the drive, then a miss right can be in the opposite cliff area, or if not over the cliff left, and then you have a super challenging chip/flip shot uphill to a narrow green. 


I prefer the layup in front of the center-line-bunker.  210-220 of the tee, which leaves a solid 80-100 into the green depending on the pin placement.  You can lean left/right depending on the pin.

[Matt Kardash]

The first thing I noticed was that I thought the bunker seemed too wide. But I haven't played the hole.

[Pete_Pittock]

The first 11 holes are almost infinity wide. On the 12th tee you are all of a sudden looking at 40 yards wide. Then 13 is the same.
It seems a lot wider if you are playing a TopFlite instead of a PROV1x or the like.

[Andrew Harvie]

This stretch of golf alongside the cliff, starting at the 11th to the 15th, is all world

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