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Jonathan Sirois

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Never a Ross; always a Park (Country Club of New Bedford [MA])
« on: February 12, 2019, 02:58:01 PM »
The Country Club of New Bedford (1902; North Dartmouth, MA) has long self-identified as a Ross course without much evidence to back it up. While records suggest he was consulted and may have even visited the property, there exists no proof that he ever worked on the course.

For the past two years, my friend and CCNB member, Mike, a longtime member of the club, has searched far and wide for confirmation of Ross' involvement. Having spoken with number of authorities---including Bradley Klein, Anthony Pioppi, and Michael Fay---and read as much as he could on the topic, Mike is comfortable confirming that Ross had no involvement at the club.

However, there is overwhelming evidence that the course we enjoy today is, in fact, a Willie Park Jr. design. His name has been attributed to the course in a number of places, including on threads here, but Mike's research seems to confirm it. He's even brought Mungo Park into the conversation for added detail.

While we are still in the very early stages of this, we are interested in exploring a Park Jr. restoration in order to make this great course a superb one that is more consistent with its original character. I know Mike DeVries is currently engaged with Flint Golf Cub (MI) to restore some lost Park elements, namely the greens and bunkers. He is a natural point of contact, as the scope of work being done at FGC is comparable to what CCNB could potentially pursue.

But here are two questions for you all:
  • Can anyone share resources that capture WPJ's philosophy of golf course design? While I've seen his thoughts in bits and pieces, I'm unaware of a comprehensive source. His The Game of Golf and The Art of Putting, while interesting, are playing manuals and don't offer much insight into design.
  • When you think of WPJ courses that have received restorations this century, which ones come to mind as being especially thoughtful and successful?
Thanks in advance, everyone. We'll keep you posted on our progress.
Jon
Pining for the fairways.

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Never a Ross; always a Park (Country Club of New Bedford [MA])
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2019, 03:07:05 PM »
Jonathan-


It wasn't clear from your post when you think Park was involved.  That information would be helpful.


Sven
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Mike Feeney

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Re: Never a Ross; always a Park (Country Club of New Bedford [MA])
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2019, 07:40:32 AM »
Applaud an effort to restore/renovate CCNB. 

DeVries sounds like a good resource.
I would contact Mark Mungeam http://mcgolfdesign.com/-- he led the restoration/renovation/master planning at Olympia Fields North Course.  If you haven't already, check-out GCA's (Ran's, I would think) review of Olympia Fields http://golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/usa/olympia-fields-country-club-north-course/   It sounds like Mungeam went through trials & tribulations before getting it right -- ideal input for you to avoid the same.
In my opinion and as I suspect you well know, CCNB would benefit immensely by substantial tree removal.  I have seen old aerial pictures of the course and it is barely recognizable.  Every architect is going to immediately recognize the over-growth's effect on shot values, claustrophobic feel, and the infiltration of roots on playing grounds.
 Jon, be prepared -- deforestation/tree removal, as many in this community have experienced, is a very touchy subject with memberships.  You will get objections from tree/nature lovers and from those worried about safety as CCNB is impressively routed on a tight geography. 
 

Jaeger Kovich

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Re: Never a Ross; always a Park (Country Club of New Bedford [MA])
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2019, 09:10:10 AM »
Jonathan,


Do you and Mike have any old photos yet?


Aside from Willie Park Jrs two books himself, there is a bio on him which I am currently in the middle of... Its ok/not that great.


Jonathan Sirois

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Re: Never a Ross; always a Park (Country Club of New Bedford [MA])
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2019, 11:34:53 AM »

Hi all,


Thanks for your thoughts so far. As far as Mike can tell, CCNB was one of the last courses Park worked on before taking ill and returning to Scotland.


His research indicates that Park was hired in 1922 to redesign the existing holes and lead the expansion of the course across Slocum Street. The minutes even indicate “... that the work should be pushed along as quickly as possible.” However, Park became ill sometime around 1922-1923 and stopped working actively in 1923 before passing away in 1925. The waters are muddied by the fact that many records and board minutes are missing due to a clubhouse fire in October of 1922!

Here is the oldest photo I can provide for the time being. The leftmost triangle of land (bordered by Route 6 on the left) features 12 holes (including the original nine) and the area across the street to the right features six.


Photo credit: http://ccnbturfcare.blogspot.com/2015/11/1938-aerial-photo.html



Pining for the fairways.

Joe Bausch

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Re: Never a Ross; always a Park (Country Club of New Bedford [MA])
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2019, 11:37:41 AM »
Jonathan, do I have this right:  the course was 12 holes when Park arrived and those holes were tweaked, and the current holes 7-12 are the new six holes done by him?

I would love to see some photos of the greens.  I've seen many WPJr greens and I think I know how they frequently look.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Jonathan Sirois

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Re: Never a Ross; always a Park (Country Club of New Bedford [MA])
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2019, 11:40:37 AM »

Applaud an effort to restore/renovate CCNB. 

DeVries sounds like a good resource.
I would contact Mark Mungeam http://mcgolfdesign.com/-- he led the restoration/renovation/master planning at Olympia Fields North Course.  If you haven't already, check-out GCA's (Ran's, I would think) review of Olympia Fields http://golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/usa/olympia-fields-country-club-north-course/   It sounds like Mungeam went through trials & tribulations before getting it right -- ideal input for you to avoid the same.
In my opinion and as I suspect you well know, CCNB would benefit immensely by substantial tree removal.  I have seen old aerial pictures of the course and it is barely recognizable.  Every architect is going to immediately recognize the over-growth's effect on shot values, claustrophobic feel, and the infiltration of roots on playing grounds.
 Jon, be prepared -- deforestation/tree removal, as many in this community have experienced, is a very touchy subject with memberships.  You will get objections from tree/nature lovers and from those worried about safety as CCNB is impressively routed on a tight geography.



Mike,


No doubt we'll have to tread carefully. One idea is to pilot a restoration effort on a single hole in order to "sell" the project to the members. Thanks so much for the Mungeam recommendation and a reminder of the OF restoration. What a beauty.


You're spot on regarding the overgrowth of trees. I've never played at a course where more single-digit handicap players hit into trees off the tee. It's uncanny. There are also times when approach shots from the fairway are impeded by overhanging branches. Not cool. Roots and compromised turf conditions more undesirable side effects, of course.


Opening up the course a bit and firming it up would do wonders for playability. CCNB has so many interesting elevation changes and doglegs that would be even more fun with added width and firmness.


Thanks,
Jon
« Last Edit: February 15, 2019, 04:06:51 PM by Jonathan Sirois »
Pining for the fairways.

Jonathan Sirois

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Re: Never a Ross; always a Park (Country Club of New Bedford [MA])
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2019, 11:46:53 AM »
Jonathan, do I have this right:  the course was 12 holes when Park arrived and those holes were tweaked, and the current holes 7-12 are the new six holes done by him?

I would love to see some photos of the greens.  I've seen many WPJr greens and I think I know how they frequently look.


Joe,


That is exactly our line of thought at the moment. I'll work on acquiring more photos, but you can start here by perusing the gallery. There's a few decent shots of green sites.
Pining for the fairways.

Jonathan Sirois

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Re: Never a Ross; always a Park (Country Club of New Bedford [MA])
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2019, 11:52:47 AM »
Jonathan,


Do you and Mike have any old photos yet?


Aside from Willie Park Jrs two books himself, there is a bio on him which I am currently in the middle of... Its ok/not that great.


Jaeger,


Are you reading Walter Stephen's The Man Who Took Golf to the World or another title? I'd love to get Park's thoughts of deign in his own words.
Pining for the fairways.

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Never a Ross; always a Park (Country Club of New Bedford [MA])
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2019, 12:16:59 PM »
Jonathan-

You might find this old thread of interest (if you haven't seen it yet), as it covers pretty much all of Park's work -

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,59468.0.html

In that thread Joe Bausch posted the following article.  It is dated a bit prior to the dates you ascribed to his work at New Bedford, but it contains the only reference to I've seen to Park working in the Boston area.  There were quite a few projects that got underway in the late teens that were delayed due to the War and weren't picked up again for a number of years.  New Bedford may have been one of them.

Sven

Nov. 19, 1916 Asheville Citizen-Sun:


"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Joe Bausch

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Re: Never a Ross; always a Park (Country Club of New Bedford [MA])
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2019, 12:47:00 PM »
What was considered to be the paper of record for that area of Massachusetts back in the 20s?
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Jonathan Sirois

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Never a Ross; always a Park (Country Club of New Bedford [MA])
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2019, 12:50:09 PM »
Jonathan-

You might find this old thread of interest (if you haven't seen it yet), as it covers pretty much all of Park's work -

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,59468.0.html

In that thread Joe Bausch posted the following article.  It is dated a bit prior to the dates you ascribed to his work at New Bedford, but it contains the only reference to I've seen to Park working in the Boston area.  There were quite a few projects that got underway in the late teens that were delayed due to the War and weren't picked up again for a number of years.  New Bedford may have been one of them.



Sven

Nov. 19, 1916 Asheville Citizen-Sun:




Sven,


Thanks for sharing the old thread, as well as the Citizen-Sun article that Joe originally provided. Great stuff that should help us refine the timeline!
Pining for the fairways.

Jonathan Sirois

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Re: Never a Ross; always a Park (Country Club of New Bedford [MA])
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2019, 12:57:05 PM »
Jonathan, do I have this right:  the course was 12 holes when Park arrived and those holes were tweaked, and the current holes 7-12 are the new six holes done by him?

I would love to see some photos of the greens.  I've seen many WPJr greens and I think I know how they frequently look.


Joe,


That is exactly our line of thought at the moment. I'll work on acquiring more photos, but you can start here by perusing the gallery. There's a few decent shots of green sites.


Joe,

Sorry, I misspoke here. Nine holes existed on the original plot, not 12. The land across the street was acquired in February of 1922 and Park was hired in March of the same year. Eventually, an 18-hole course was completed and opened for play in September of 1923.

Mike has confirmation of this activity from The Morning Mercury, previously a New Bedford daily. The Standard-Times, the current daily, was not established until 1934.
Pining for the fairways.

Joe Bausch

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Re: Never a Ross; always a Park (Country Club of New Bedford [MA])
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2019, 01:10:53 PM »
Jonathan,

Here are links to photo albums of Willie Park Jr courses I've played:

Ashbourne:  these are photos I think about a year after the course had closed for good.

http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/AshbourneCC/index.html

ACCC:  I don't know if any of his work is left at Atlantic City CC.

http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/AtlanticCity/index.html

Berkshire:  I've interspersed some nice Dallin aerials into this photo album, a course I just love.

http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Berkshire/index.html

Greate Bay:  not sure exactly how many WPJr greens are left at Greate Bay.

http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/GreateBay/index.html

http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Indiana/index.html

http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Maidstone/index.html

Philmont North:  some excellent WPJr greens here.

http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/PhilmontNorth/index.html

The first two greens at Philmont South are also WPJr greens:

http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/PhilmontSouth/index.html

http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/PrincessAnne/index.html

http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/RollingRoad/index.html

Schuylkill is part Ross and part WPJr (I forget which of the 9 holes there are WPJr):

http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Schuylkill/index.html

http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Sylvania/index.html

http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Schuylkill/index.html
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 01:14:00 PM by Joe Bausch »
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Jonathan Sirois

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Re: Never a Ross; always a Park (Country Club of New Bedford [MA])
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2019, 01:34:18 PM »
Jonathan,

Here are links to photo albums of Willie Park Jr courses I've played:

Ashbourne:  these are photos I think about a year after the course had closed for good.

http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/AshbourneCC/index.html

ACCC:  I don't know if any of his work is left at Atlantic City CC.

http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/AtlanticCity/index.html

Berkshire:  I've interspersed some nice Dallin aerials into this photo album, a course I just love.

http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Berkshire/index.html

Greate Bay:  not sure exactly how many WPJr greens are left at Greate Bay.

http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/GreateBay/index.html

http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Indiana/index.html

http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Maidstone/index.html

Philmont North:  some excellent WPJr greens here.

http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/PhilmontNorth/index.html

The first two greens at Philmont South are also WPJr greens:

http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/PhilmontSouth/index.html

http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/PrincessAnne/index.html

http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/RollingRoad/index.html

Schuylkill is part Ross and part WPJr (I forget which of the 9 holes there are WPJr):

http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Schuylkill/index.html

http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Sylvania/index.html

http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Schuylkill/index.html


Joe,


Thanks so much for these links. What a terrific corpus you've created! After taking a quick glimpse at some of the galleries, the evidence of Park's handiwork is only stronger.
Pining for the fairways.

Bret Lawrence

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Re: Never a Ross; always a Park (Country Club of New Bedford [MA])
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2019, 01:45:12 PM »
Jonathan,


Connecticut has a few Willie Park courses that are worth checking out.  The two I would recommend are New Haven Country Club and Shuttle Meadow Country Club.  New Haven CC might have the best set of greens in the state after their restoration about 10 years ago.  I am not sure who built these greens, but they are really, really good. Shuttle Meadow is a good place to visit, because it's very close to the original. There hasn't been a lot of tinkering here.


I can't think of a specific article that pinpoints Willie Parks design philosophy, but some of the articles in the thread Sven posted will give tidbits at a time, from what I remember.




Bret




Jonathan Sirois

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Re: Never a Ross; always a Park (Country Club of New Bedford [MA])
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2019, 02:03:42 PM »
Jonathan,


Connecticut has a few Willie Park courses that are worth checking out.  The two I would recommend are New Haven Country Club and Shuttle Meadow Country Club.  New Haven CC might have the best set of greens in the state after their restoration about 10 years ago.  I am not sure who built these greens, but they are really, really good. Shuttle Meadow is a good place to visit, because it's very close to the original. There hasn't been a lot of tinkering here.


I can't think of a specific article that pinpoints Willie Parks design philosophy, but some of the articles in the thread Sven posted will give tidbits at a time, from what I remember.




Bret


Thanks, Bret. Mike from CCNB has plans to visit New Haven this year. I just checked out the course tour and it presents very well. I love the trifecta of greens 4-6!


Jon
Pining for the fairways.

Richard_Mandell

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Re: Never a Ross; always a Park (Country Club of New Bedford [MA])
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2019, 02:43:15 PM »
Jonathan,

As I recall, Park's own chapter on design in The Game of Golf is pretty detailed and worth the read if you want something in his own words.  It was done back in 1896 but most of it, if not all, probably held true throughout Park's career so it would probably apply to his work at New Bedford in the twenties. There is always good info one can derive and apply (carefully) to an existing course from an early architect's writings, even if it seems a bit elementary compared to the writings that are available now. 

Park was one of the very first to, if not the first, to put his thoughts on paper.  What would be helpful for you at New Bedford is seeing what holes/shots/features/strategies found at New Bedford match up with Park's thoughts.  It may help you determine what may not be original details from Park.

For instance, Park promoted sand bunkers that were big and deep enough so balls would not roll through them or bounce out. I would use that information when looking at a bunker that was considered shallow possibly not being original (at least in its current form).

The Parks of Musselburgh (1991) is a good read and it does re-print much of Park's Game of Golf chapter in bullet form.    Other than a compendium done by Frederick Hawtree with the same info, there is nothing else in Park's own words out there that I am aware of. k has nothing of Park's philosophy.

« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 02:56:46 PM by Richard_Mandell »

Niall C

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Re: Never a Ross; always a Park (Country Club of New Bedford [MA])
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2019, 02:49:47 PM »
To state the obvious but Park did a fair bit in the UK. If Richard is correct in that his way of working and design ideas didn't evolve that much from the 1890's to the 1920's then I suggest it might be worth exploring some of the courses over here, particularly the lesser known smaller clubs that possibly/probably still have a lot of Park's work untouched.

Alternatively some of his big designs over here such Huntercombe were very well publicised and it might be worth tracking down contemporary reports/photos from when they opened. I suspect Park might have been quoted with his design thoughts although can't think of any instances off hand.

Niall

Richard_Mandell

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Re: Never a Ross; always a Park (Country Club of New Bedford [MA])
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2019, 02:59:58 PM »
Niall is correct in his suggestion (provided I am correct in my assessment).  I'm guessing anything in his neighborhood is more accurate than anything left over here, even courses that may have been re-worked in the spirit of Park.  Since little is available in the name of drawings and aerials are hard to find before the thirties, it would be tough to do anything close to restoration, at Olympia Fields or anywhere, to feed off for inspiration.

Jonathan Sirois

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Re: Never a Ross; always a Park (Country Club of New Bedford [MA])
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2019, 03:42:15 PM »
Niall is correct in his suggestion (provided I am correct in my assessment).  I'm guessing anything in his neighborhood is more accurate than anything left over here, even courses that may have been re-worked in the spirit of Park.  Since little is available in the name of drawings and aerials are hard to find before the thirties, it would be tough to do anything close to restoration, at Olympia Fields or anywhere, to feed off for inspiration.


Niall and Richard,

You both raise good points. It would be a treat to head over to the UK to immerse ourselves in as much Park as possible. To Richard's point, trying to find design elements/shot values at New Bedford that are consistent with Park's words and portfolio of courses would be a fun project and would certainly further the cause of promoting a restoration. Once the snow clears...

Niall, Huntercombe and Sunningdale Old are of particular interest, although I know Colt's work at the latter hides some of the original Park design. I'm also interested in learning more about his work in Canada at Weston and Laval-Sur-Le-Lac, both of which have seen restoration work by Ian Andrew.
Pining for the fairways.

Tom_Doak

  • Total Karma: 11
Re: Never a Ross; always a Park (Country Club of New Bedford [MA])
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2019, 07:37:32 PM »
Jonathan:


I just did a quick bio on Willie Park, Jr. for The Met Golfer.  It will be out shortly.


His best work in the U.S. is clearly Maidstone, the final version of which was done right around the time of CCNB.


My former associate Bruce Hepner has worked on several courses by Willie Park, including Battle Creek CC, which he says is the best preserved of them.

Jonathan Sirois

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Re: Never a Ross; always a Park (Country Club of New Bedford [MA])
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2019, 11:31:41 PM »
Jonathan:


I just did a quick bio on Willie Park, Jr. for The Met Golfer.  It will be out shortly.


His best work in the U.S. is clearly Maidstone, the final version of which was done right around the time of CCNB.


My former associate Bruce Hepner has worked on several courses by Willie Park, including Battle Creek CC, which he says is the best preserved of them.


Tom,


I look forward to reading your piece in The Met Golfer and thank you for the information on Bruce and Battle Creek.


You're right about Maidstone's timeline being of particular interest. It would be fascinating to walk the property, take field notes, and then return to CCNB, looking for faint traces of comparable features, as well as noting those that may have been lost over time.


The short grass that bleeds into much of Maidstone's bunkering is one example of something I'd love to see more of at CCNB (and countless other courses).


Jon
Pining for the fairways.

Bret Lawrence

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Re: Never a Ross; always a Park (Country Club of New Bedford [MA])
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2019, 12:08:20 AM »
Jonathan,


Here is a picture from 1953: The picture is titled C.C. New Bedford. This is from the O.J Noer/Milorganite Photo Collection.  The photograph is obviously highlighting the custom made sprayer, but you can catch a glimpse of a few features in the background.


https://tic.msu.edu/noerslides?Num=4001


Bret




Kyle Harris

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Re: Never a Ross; always a Park (Country Club of New Bedford [MA])
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2019, 05:44:10 AM »
Willie Park from about 1922 until death may be one of the bigger mysteries, to me, out there. I have him visiting Penn State for 6 days for what has evolved into the White Course during this era and the Maidstone book mentions he left that project to do this.

That wasn't an easy journey in 1922 - several train changes.


It seems he was approaching Donald Ross levels of work during this time frame without the ability to delegate like Ross.
http://kylewharris.com

Constantly blamed by 8-handicaps for their 7 missed 12-footers each round.

“Split fairways are for teenagers.”

-Tom Doak