Harbour Town vs Ballyneal

[John Kavanaugh]

This is an old fashion boxing match where each hole can be awarded a maximum of 10 and a minimum of 7 points per round. It will be an 18 hole round with each hole being discussed individually on a day to day basis. Each hole can be played from whatever distance you choose as that is the beauty of both courses. I just finished 5 rounds at Harbour Town and have not been to Ballyneal in a few years so I may need some help along the way. I also would appreciate any photographic evidence available considering I forgot my camera at home in my drone box.


Dye vs Doak. May the most subtle win.


Hole 1. A couple of short par 4's to get the round started. But that is not all there is with any starting round. You can't get to the first tee without getting to the course and going through the gate. Each in a beautiful setting. One public, one private. Both in the center of golfing nirvanas for given classes of golfers. All that said I'll call the weigh in a draw and not let it influence the scoring.


Sadly, one reviewed by Ran while the other is not. Wow, Ran loves Ballyneal. http://golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/usa/ballyneal/


Ok back to the holes. After I hit the showers that is. Ran's review was a gut shot but my substantial gut still tells me it is a fair fight.

[Tim Liddy]

Dye was given the initial routing at Harbour Town (Original routing by Cobb) and brilliantly changed the last three golf holes to finish on Calibogue Sound. Harbour Town also had a housing component. Ballyneal is on 300 acres of undisturbed sand dunes. Thinking four feet of elevation change at Harbour Town compared to approximately 100 at Ballyneal. Sounds fair to me.

[Ryan Hillenbrand]

Wow John, not sure you could have picked two more different courses to compare. I've not played Ballyneal so can't participate, but with all the love here on GCA I feel like I have. Width & minimalism vs. tightness and sharp angles.

Sorry to hear about your camera. I know how much you love pictures of courses. There are a few good Twitter feeds I can recommend if you aren't aware

[John Kavanaugh]

Dye was given the initial routing at Harbour Town (Original routing by Cobb) and brilliantly changed the last three golf holes to finish on Calibogue Sound. Harbour Town also had a housing component. Ballyneal is on 300 acres of undisturbed sand dunes. Thinking four feet of elevation change at Harbour Town compared to approximately 100 at Ballyneal. Sounds fair to me.

Tim,


I'm not going to hold it against Ballyneal just because Harbour Town is an easier walk.

[John Kavanaugh]

Wow John, not sure you could have picked two more different courses to compare. I've not played Ballyneal so can't participate, but with all the love here on GCA I feel like I have. Width & minimalism vs. tightness and sharp angles.

Sorry to hear about your camera. I know how much you love pictures of courses. There are a few good Twitter feeds I can recommend if you aren't aware

Ryan,


Funny, both courses are right around 800 miles from home. Once again I will not be giving points to Harbour Town because it is public access. You need to get to Ballyneal. The generosity of the membership can not be outpaced. Expect an invite soon.

[Simon Holt]

I played Harbour Town on Jan 4th.


Aside of the hole by hole, Harbour Town had a solid set of 3s but the overall impression was that it is extremely tight off mosts tees.


I also threw up in my mouth when the fairways came to the end with 4 inch rough around 130 yards from the green, then back to fairway again from around 40 yards out from the surfaces.  Why not just have one cut all the way to the green?


Overall, perfectly enjoyable, but I wouldn't drop trips to other places to visit Harbour Town.

[Lou_Duran]

A better contest would be HT vs Long Cove.

[John Kavanaugh]

Hole 1.


Both holes are 380 yd par 4's. Both holes require a nice little drive to the right center of the fairway with death left. Ballyneal offers more width as HT requires a bit of precision or a hybrid off the tee. Both holes have equally interesting greens. I really enjoy the front to back nature of HT and have not had the pleasure of playing Ballyneal since the regrassing. Is round one a draw, I think not.


I'm giving the first hole to Harbour Town because of the fronting bunker protecting a tucked pin. If you don't have that shot run the ball onto the right side with a low draw nine iron or your club of choice. The approach to the first green at HT is one of the finest thought over strength short approaches I have ever played.


Hole 1, round 1. HT 10 Ballyneal 8

[Ian Mackenzie]

I succumbed to the hype of Harbor Town in 2006 and paid $250 for a 5 hour cart-balling round.
Never again.


Spent a 3-day weekend at Ballyneal in September of 2008.


Ballyneal wins 10 and 9.


If the match was in CO, I would finish the back nine gladly.
If the match was in SC, I would walk in after the 10th hole....


I know it's perhaps just me, but I think Harbor Town is in the "Top 10 Most Over-Rated Courses" in the US.

[Anthony_Nysse]

A better contest would be HT vs Long Cove.

I think I know which one wins the fun factor.

[John Kavanaugh]

I succumbed to the hype of Harbor Town in 2006 and paid $250 for a 5 hour cart-balling round.
Never again.


Spent a 3-day weekend at Ballyneal in September of 2008.


Ballyneal wins 10 and 9.


If the match was in CO, I would finish the back nine gladly.
If the match was in SC, I would walk in after the 10th hole....


I know it's perhaps just me, but I think Harbor Town is in the "Top 10 Most Over-Rated Courses" in the US.

Don't tell me about money. I had my own room in this house for a week and played HT four rounds for $1,500 in shirt sleeve weather while the rest of the country froze. We didn't sniff another group during 6 straight days of golf. Let's try to keep it to the architecture.


https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/17-Marsh-Dr-Hilton-Head-Island,-SC,-29928_rb/

[Ian Mackenzie]

I succumbed to the hype of Harbor Town in 2006 and paid $250 for a 5 hour cart-balling round.
Never again.


Spent a 3-day weekend at Ballyneal in September of 2008.


Ballyneal wins 10 and 9.


If the match was in CO, I would finish the back nine gladly.
If the match was in SC, I would walk in after the 10th hole....


I know it's perhaps just me, but I think Harbor Town is in the "Top 10 Most Over-Rated Courses" in the US.

Don't tell me about money. I had my own room in this house for a week and played HT four rounds for $1,500 in shirt sleeve weather while the rest of the country froze. We didn't sniff another group during 6 straight days of golf. Let's try to keep it to the architecture.


https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/17-Marsh-Dr-Hilton-Head-Island,-SC,-29928_rb/

$$ was about 4 words of my post, JK.


There have been other threads started like this that are quickly trashed.


Comparing a SC resort course to a Colorado private course is just incongruous and open to pretty much anything you want.


Hey, let's compare Seminole to Cabot!
Wait, how about Streamsong Red to Olympic Lake?
Or, let's really get down on it and have a "match" between TPC Sawgrass and The Loop....!!....

[John Kavanaugh]

Ian,


This is a hole by hole match which allows comparisons between wildly varying courses. Both courses can be enjoyed from any distance by any level golfer. Both courses are dependent on the weather to provide a challenge. Each course was designed by one of the great architects of our time early in his career. I think there are more similarities than disparities.


If we all just take a deep breath and relax this can lead to interesting discussion.

[John Kavanaugh]

Recap:


Hole 1, round 1 HT 10 Ballyneal 8


Scores are a boxing format. Maximum 10, minimum 7. It's a long 18 rounds. Round 2 tomorrow, a couple of nice short par 5's.

[Kalen Braley]

While this seemed absurd at first, comparing any two courses in this format is silly any way you slice it, so why not?!  Having played Ballyneal, but not HT, i'll be an interested observer.


P.S.  JK how do you put the 1st hole at HT 10-8 over BN?  Rounds scored with 8 are usually only reserved for getting knocked down or getting the hell beat out of you.  Having played Ballyneal I don't see any "8" holes out there, regardless of what you compare it to.

[Jon Claydon]

Have not played either but have a pressing question.  I'll be at CCC in March for a weekend, planning on 5 rounds over 3 days.  One of my favorite places to play golf. 

Worth it to take one of those rounds over to Harbor Town? 

[John Kavanaugh]

Kalen,


Both holes are easy pars. To get a chance for a kick in birdie to the tucked pin at HT you need to place your drive in an approximate 10 square yd area. The sophistication of the angle required for pure excellence is missing at Ballyneal. It's a sweet science.

[Eric Smith]

Comparing a SC resort course to a Colorado private course is just incongruous and open to pretty much anything you want.

Hey, let's compare Seminole to Cabot!
Wait, how about Streamsong Red to Olympic Lake?
Or, let's really get down on it and have a "match" between TPC Sawgrass and The Loop....!!....

The founder of this website likes to compare golf courses in a hole by hole match play comparison. But I'd imagine he tires of the sidebars as I know JK will before this exercise reaches the O-bunker or the E-green.

[JMEvensky]

 It's a sweet science.

 Nicely done.

[John Kavanaugh]

Have not played either but have a pressing question.  I'll be at CCC in March for a weekend, planning on 5 rounds over 3 days.  One of my favorite places to play golf. 

Worth it to take one of those rounds over to Harbor Town?

Not if you are playing alone. Now if you are swimming in cash and want to take the wife for a nice cart pushing stroll and dinner you got something going. There is a nice hotel right off the first tee with an excellent Sunday brunch.


You are talking about spending four hours in a car when you are already in a world class location. Anything else?

[Jon Claydon]

Have not played either but have a pressing question.  I'll be at CCC in March for a weekend, planning on 5 rounds over 3 days.  One of my favorite places to play golf. 

Worth it to take one of those rounds over to Harbor Town?

Not if you are playing alone. Now if you are swimming in cash and want to take the wife for a nice cart pushing stroll and dinner you got something going. There is a nice hotel right off the first tee with an excellent Sunday brunch.


You are talking about spending four hours in a car when you are already in a world class location. Anything else?

apologies if unclear; CCC = Chechessee Creek Club.

[John Kavanaugh]

Sorry, I played CCC on this trip. Absolutely, go to Harbour Town. They compliment each other very well.

[Sven Nilsen]

Both holes are 380 yd par 4's.

Right there you've already shown you missed the ethos of Ballyneal.


The beauty of the place is that there are no parameters.  The first hole at BN, like every other hole, can be stretched as far or moved up as short as you want it to be.


Its part of the beauty of the place.

[John Kavanaugh]

Note: I will be using the yardages for Ballyneal as outlined in Ran's review.

[Kyle Harris]

Both holes are 380 yd par 4's.

Right there you've already shown you missed the ethos of Ballyneal.

...or he just doesn't care for it in that context...