[John Shimp]

What does the massive difference in chechessee and kapalua say about Coore and Crenshaw?

While both flow naturally with the land they are so different.  Flat vs massive hills, small greens vs huge with big break, precise iron shots to avoid a delicate recovery vs precise to be on the right part of the green, par 70 that plays long at 6600 vs par 73 that plays short for 7400 (crazy as that is).   Plenty of other juxtapositions as well.  Any thoughts?

[JC Jones]

Good point, John.  I was thinking about that last night as well when watching the Hyundai. 

I think it speaks to their commitment to create something that is reflective of the property they are working on and not something that is reflective of some ideal.  Where some architects will draw holes and put them on the property, C&C seem to uncover the holes that are all ready there.  When done, that will create a diverse portfolio.  I think that will leave more of a mark on the world of golf course architecture than the architects who create courses with a sameness to them.

[Eric Smith]

Some food for thought...here's a blurb from Ran's review of CCC:

Similar to their Kapalua Plantation course, the greens vary widely in size, from the 3,300 square foot at the first to the 10,000 square foot one at the sixteenth.

[john_stiles]

Have not played  Kapalua.

From the TV tourney viewing over many years,  it seems they did a wonderful job in sizing and contouring the greens at Kapalua.  There is a wide variety.   It is a lot of fun to watch the ball roll in many of the approach shots at Kapalua, and to see the wide variety of short shots played by the professionals.

Bottomline,  from other C&C courses played or viewed, with many rounds at Cusco and Chechessee,  the greens are usually spectacular.

Chechessee is narrow with small greens and tight contours by comparison.

Kapalua would seem very broad and wide, with many large greens with severe slope (and grain).

Agree that each seems a wonderful course,  on vastly different lands.

Kapalua would seem to have been the harder course to pull off,   because of the severe up and down, not to mention the varying winds.  Hope I get to play there one day.

[Bruce Wellmon]

something that is reflective of the property they are working on and not something that is reflective of some ideal.  Where some architects will draw holes and put them on the property, C&C seem to uncover the holes that are all ready there.

IMO "well said" JC.
I saw a course by another name architect while under construction and watched them mold the land to their hole.
C&C holes just seem to "sit " on the land.

[Will Smith]

The interesting thing may be to look at the similarities between the two courses that sit on such disparate pieces of land. I have not played KP, but it appears that even though it is wide open you have to work the ball both left and right like at Chechessee. A premium is placed on the short game at both places especially putting. There also seems to be an emphasis on half-par holes which may be the key to one playing long and the other playing short.

I, like John Stiles, hope to make it out to KP someday to test observations gleaned from the TV. It looks absolutely spectacular.

[Eric Smith]

Bump

[Brad Tufts]

I'd say they are both very playable, but difficult to score very low.


Both offer loads of room off the tee, but your angles tighten up as you approach, and there is always challenge around the greens.

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