par threes, short par fours, and par fives in a row.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I only have played Cypress Point once, and that was almost twenty years ago. I still remember every shot I hit. I have gone over them many times since I played there. CP has an anomaly. It has two par fives in a row (5&6), two short par fours (8&9), and two par threes (15&16). It doesn't seem that Dr. Mac cared about it. I suspect he could have made one of the par fives a long par four and number ten a par three, but fifteen and sixteen might be the best back to back par threes in a row. I am not saying he should have done anything differently, but for a top ten course it is unusual.


Are there any instances of a similar routing? Do you care?

[Ally Mcintosh]

Ballybunion is the closest world class course I can think of:


2 back to back par-5’s at 4 & 5.... and 3 par-3’s in 4 holes at 12, 14 & 15.


Not really two short 4’s in a row although 6 & 7 can play that way in the right conditions.

[Kalen Braley]

The back 9 at Pac Dunes is about as "unconventional" as it gets and its one of the finest in the world.

3, 3, 5, 4, 3, 5, 4, 3, 5....only two par 4s on the back 9.

[Michael Wolf]

Pac Dunes and Ballybunnion as already mentioned. Crystal Downs has 3 short (and very good) par 4's in a row. Birkdale, Desert Highlands and Baltusrol Lower all end with back to back par 5's for Am's. Sunningdale Old starts with back to back par 5's. Berkshire only has 6 par 4's.  LACC North has 6&7, which will be interesting to see set up for the upcoming US Open.

[Jeff Schley]

Immediately think of North Berwick West Links with back to back par 5's to finish the front on 8/9, but then you have the third par 5 on 11, so not sure I know of any course I am aware of with 3 par 5 pars in four holes. Wish I could have used it as a "scoring opportunity" but played it in 35 mph winds, which is average I'm told.... haha.

[Mark_Fine]

Tommy,
Number 10 at Cypress is a par five so I don’t think that he would have made that a par three.  Those holes you mention at Cypress are all sooooo different that their par doesn’t really matter.  The only time I really care about the order of holes (and their par) is when back to back holes play and/or look almost identical.
Mark

[Mark Pearce]

Crail Balcomie has back to back par 5s (11, 12) immediately followed by back to back 3s (13, 14).  9 is a driveable par 4 and 10 is a drive and a wedge

[Thomas Dai]

Cruden Bay has back to back par 3’s at the 15th and 16th.

Narin & Portnoo has 3 back to back par-5’s.
And then there’s Painswick which has back to back par-5’s, three par-3’s in a row and some short back to back par-4’s as well. To paraphrase the football chant ... “One Painswick, there’s only one Painswick...” repeat over and over again!
Atb

[Ira Fishman]

Flynn’s Cascades finishes 3-5-5-3. Cannot remember that sequence elsewhere.


Bedford Springs has a 3-5-3-5 sequence bracketed by two short Par 4s. One of the Par 3s is a true Ross Volcano.


Alas, I have not played either in a really long time.


Ira

[Peter Pallotta]

I hadn't thought of it this way before, but the traditional/common Par 72 layout doesn't serve a formula for formula's sake but instead serves to provide the appearance of variety (from one hole to the next) in cases where such variety wouldn't otherwise or actually exist -- either because the site was so poor and/or because the architect lacked the necessary will or imagination or talent.
So on the 'par does-doesn't matter' debate maybe both sides are right: it does matter when a course lacks variety but it doesn't matter where compelling variety abpunds.

[Tom_Doak]

Immediately think of North Berwick West Links with back to back par 5's to finish the front on 8/9, but then you have the third par 5 on 11, so not sure I know of any course I am aware of with 3 par 5 pars in four holes. Wish I could have used it as a "scoring opportunity" but played it in 35 mph winds, which is average I'm told.... haha.

The par-5 holes at the far end of North Berwick were all added to the course to make it more conventional- I am not sure exactly when, but before that the course was barely over 5000 yards.  “Perfection” was then a par 3 and the Redan played from the ridge where the fairway bunkers on 14 now sit!

[David_Tepper]

The Ocean Course at the Olympic Club used to start 5-3-5-3-5. Then the front-9 finished with 4 par-4's. That was pre-1984.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Tommy,
Number 10 at Cypress is a par five so I don’t think that he would have made that a par three.  Those holes you mention at Cypress are all sooooo different that their par doesn’t really matter.  The only time I really care about the order of holes (and their par) is when back to back holes play and/or look almost identical.
Mark

Mark, I mentioned 8&9.

[Phil McDade]

Lawsonia has its famous 5-3-5-3-5-3 routing starting at #9 through the par 3 14th.


The well-regarded but under-the-radar Big Foot CC (Bendelow) in southern Wisconsin near Lake Geneva has both nines featuring back-to-back par 5s (#1 and 2; #12 and 13) as part of its funky par 73.

[Joe Hancock]

Lawsonia has its famous 5-3-5-3-5-3 routing starting at #9 through the par 3 14th.


The well-regarded but under-the-radar Big Foot CC (Bendelow) in southern Wisconsin near Lake Geneva has both nines featuring back-to-back par 5s (#1 and 2; #12 and 13) as part of its funky par 73.

Suddenly I don’t find the 5-3-5-3-5-3-4-3-4 back nine at Harbor Point Golf Club (Harbor Springs, MI) so strange....

[Tommy Williamsen]

There is also Berkshire Red with six par threes, six par fours, and six par fives. I really like that. I get tired of so many par fours.

[mike_beene]

The Cliffs Vineyards course has back to back 5s followed by back to back 3s on holes 14-17. 17 is the hole that is on the peninsula in the lake.

[Jim Sherma]

Hershey West has 5-4-5-5 on 13-16. Original routing had these as 10-13. In 1930 when it opened that was a lot of yardage over the 4 hole stretch (over 1900 yards as built with good land movement making it play longer).

[Peter Flory]

Bob O'Link has back to back par 5s on both nines.  5 and 6 and then 10 and 11. 


So, there is a 9 hole stretch out there with only two par 4s.  Starting on the 4th hole, it goes 3, 5, 5, 4, 3, 4, 5, 5, 3 (symmetric). 

[Tommy Williamsen]

Bob O'Link has back to back par 5s on both nines.  5 and 6 and then 10 and 11. 


So, there is a 9 hole stretch out there with only two par 4s.  Starting on the 4th hole, it goes 3, 5, 5, 4, 3, 4, 5, 5, 3 (symmetric).

It is amazing what I can miss. I guess I don't always pay attention. I played Bob O' Link a bunch of years ago and missed this anomaly.

[Ben Stephens]

Something different - Seacroft's back nine has 3-5-3-5-3 sequence from the 10th to the 14th - then finishes 4-4-4-4 with the 16th being a short par 4


maybe Clyde Johnson can chip in for further details as 12 used to be a par 4 (or there were proposals to do so)

[Jon Wiggett]

Tommy,


Mackenzie originally designed the 16th at CP as a par 4 not a par 3. The change was more or less forced upon him from what I understand.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Tommy,


Mackenzie originally designed the 16th at CP as a par 4 not a par 3. The change was more or less forced upon him from what I understand.

The story I heard is that one of the movers and shakers of the course was the woman champion Marion Hollins. Evidently, she stood on the tee and hit it on the green. Pat three. Others more familiar can verify.

[Jon Cavalier]

Pacific Grove starts 3-3-4-4-5-5-4-4-3-3 - they're not all great holes, but it's certainly unique.

[Mike Hendren]

The 8th through 12th at Langford's Gatlinburg CC plays 3-5-5-5-3.

Cheers.