What’s the boldest great Golden Age routing ?

[Tim Martin]

Engineers is a pretty bold routing on a wild piece of land. Strong had holes playing up, across and down some large hills on the property.

[MCirba]

Not to be a complete "homer" but back in the fall of 2007 a group of us who live near here were fairly stunned to discover the original routing of Cobb's Creek Golf Course through a collaborative thread on GolfClubAtlas that can be found at this link; 

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,31872.0.html

The course had been altered in the early 50s during the Cold War when about 15% of the property was co-opted for an Army AAA (Anti-Aircraft Artillery) Station that was going to shoot down the Commie plane about to drop the big one on Philadelphia.   

That re-routing directly affected six holes and still exists today but what we learned during those heady days of discovery was an original course so audaciously and ingeniously routed our collective jaws dropped to our keyboards.   

We are very hopeful we'll all get to play that routing again before too long....

[mark chalfant]

White Bear Yacht, Camargo, Plainfield.


Plainfield makes superb use of stout glacial moraine.


At White Bear there is a fabulous assortment of holes, often with steep elevation changes.


Langford's  West Bend (Wisconsin) is also brilliant !

[Phil McDade]

White Bear Yacht, Camargo, Plainfield.


Plainfield makes superb use of stout glacial moraine.


At White Bear there is a fabulous assortment of holes, often with steep elevation changes.


Langford's  West Bend (Wisconsin) is also brilliant !

Agree on West Bend -- the par 4 7th is one of the bolder routing choices I've seen in Wisconsin.

[Phil McDade]

Phil,


as far as I am aware from snippets of information I have seen over the years Braid had more land to work with than he ended up using. Meaning the confined effect of the course especially at the far end was to a certain extent self imposed.



Also the decision to start with a par 3 laid out on the only flat land was brave (this is not the insipid and inferior starter that now greets the golfer).


The blind shots on the 6th and par 5 13th(?) when the easy option would have been to perch the greens in sight on top of the slopes.


Going sideways across the property in the middle section around 3, 14 & 15 when staying inline with the rest of the course which would have possibly yielded more length and avoided crossing the ravine on the 14th. Finally the fact that the OOB is only on the right when it would have been easier to have reversed this especially around the clubhouse end.


Braid made several bold decisions which could have led to much criticism but such was his skill in routing, rhythm and flow of the course these compromises never really strike the player until they are pointed out.


Jon

Jon -- thanks for these insights. I wasn't aware Braid may have had more land at his disposal. I do think blindness was much more accepted in his era -- isn't Glencruitten full of blind shots? -- and the shift in directions in some of the routing I always assumed was a way to get 18 holes into that property.

[Sean_A]

Oooops

Ciao

[Adam Lawrence]

Cape Breton Highlands

I totally agree

[Carl Rogers]

Lookout Mountain?

[Ian Andrew]

deleted

[Greg Smith]

I know it's kind of a hackneyed answer, but... Cypress Point.


We are talking about "bold" here.  Many of the routings I love are "great" (Kingston Heath, Garden City, Yeamans Hall), but what they are really doing is making the most of flat land and in some cases restricted acreage.  Intelligent, but not necessarily "bold".


Cypress does it for me because of the alternating uses of the various land types -- dune to forest, back to dune, a transition to forest again, then an "approach" to the seaside (12-13), then a cramped transition hole, followed by the greatest cliffside holes ever, and finishing with an enigma.


I often forget about it because it's a great use of great land, but actually CPC is the "boldest".

[Will Lozier]

Cape Breton Highlands

I totally agree

Cape Breton Highlands

He used land that was not part of the project. People's farms were expropriated to build the course.
He took this route because it had the only good soil in the area and this was the only way to build on budget.
There are long walks between sections of holes and one of them is 370 yards.
It is a remarkable journey through a rugged landscape
The routing is so good that there are five bunkerless holes

Walking 36 holes (mostly) alone in 5:45 hrs. total on my honeymoon was one of the great golf days of my life. My wife walked with me for the first 12 holes and I was 1-over playing great, psyched to be showing off a bit. She had no idea I was even there. She took pictures of all that encompasses that unique setting, exploring neat little areas of wilderness around each hole...she LOVED it as a walk which says so much about the quality of the routing. Phenomenal!!

[Will Lozier]

Cape Breton Highlands

I totally agree

Cape Breton HighlandsThere are long walks between sections of holes and one of them is 370 yards.

Closer to 500 yards Ian!

[Michael Whitaker]

Rye.

[V. Kmetz]

All would agree Hudson National is a difficult site and rankings/ratings say it is superior....Great bold routing?

It's not Golden Age; but being intimately familiar with Hudson Natl and everything about it; it is the boldest routing I've yet seen. Forest, fields, valleys, rock outcroppings, roof of the sky plateaus, ski slope drops, playing through, over and in between older ruins and faintest bones of a long-deceased course, it takes the cake for the eye candy and diverse environmental transport, with views that are unmatched this side of well, nothing is like it.


I feel uniquely positioned to say that having seen the two previous routes for courses before it was Hudson...the stillborn Hessian Hills (1926 - 30)and the abandoned RTJ plan for the property called Prickly Pear (ca. 1988-90); neither took on the property in the way that Fazio did, albeit with a Jolly Green Giant-sized carbon footprint, environmental razing and a cost to match.


It of course, came with a Tom Fazio retail price tag and a construction cost that would top 50 million (or more) today. To me it is/will be the last course built in that way, on such a property.


I hate its golf virtues, but its no less a marvel.

[John Crowley]

I’m curious which course, routed during the Golden Age, is the boldest and most adventurous.


I’ll offer NSWGC as a starter. The path it takes across and through the dunes at 3, 5, 9, 12, 14 and 15 is pretty daring though the course is a comfortable walk.


(I’ve left out the Apperly-routed 8th and 17th as they were arguably post-Golden Age changes, and though he moved the 15th green, the hole still played through the saddle so I am including it)


I am mindful of the likes of Cruden Bay, Lahinch, Ballynunion etc, but suspect some if not all were routed pre-GA and then updated during the era.

Bel-Air C C !

[mike_malone]

Not to be a complete "homer" but back in the fall of 2007 a group of us who live near here were fairly stunned to discover the original routing of Cobb's Creek Golf Course through a collaborative thread on GolfClubAtlas that can be found at this link; 




http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,31872.0.html

The course had been altered in the early 50s during the Cold War when about 15% of the property was co-opted for an Army AAA (Anti-Aircraft Artillery) Station that was going to shoot down the Commie plane about to drop the big one on Philadelphia.   

That re-routing directly affected six holes and still exists today but what we learned during those heady days of discovery was an original course so audaciously and ingeniously routed our collective jaws dropped to our keyboards.   

We are very hopeful we'll all get to play that routing again before too long....

This is so true. The old 6th hole is a stunning example of boldness.  Go straight up the hill to change the routing from along the creek to up on the ridge. Then 9 boldly goes back down to the lower ground, 11 dramatically trudges back up hill, 12 drop shots down again to the creek.


I’ve played Yale and think its routing is bold.  It’s tame compared to this!

[Greg Chambers]

Victoria Club in Riverside CA has to be one of the boldest golden age routings I’ve ever seen.  Two one shotters and four par 5s in the last six holes had me wondering what had just happened.  I’m not sure if this was the original routing, I’m sure somebody on here knows better than I.

[Jeff Schley]

I’m curious which course, routed during the Golden Age, is the boldest and most adventurous.


I’ll offer NSWGC as a starter. The path it takes across and through the dunes at 3, 5, 9, 12, 14 and 15 is pretty daring though the course is a comfortable walk.


(I’ve left out the Apperly-routed 8th and 17th as they were arguably post-Golden Age changes, and though he moved the 15th green, the hole still played through the saddle so I am including it)


I am mindful of the likes of Cruden Bay, Lahinch, Ballynunion etc, but suspect some if not all were routed pre-GA and then updated during the era.

Bel-Air C C !

John I was just looking through this thread to see if anyone had mentioned it thus far.  Routing through the canyons couldn't have been easy at the time and a bold idea.

[Mark Pearce]

Royal Hague must be in the running?  Why go through dunes when you can just go up and over?

[Wayne_Kozun]

Cape Breton Highlands

I totally agree

Me too!