What’s the boldest great Golden Age routing ?

[Scott Warren]

I’m curious which course, routed during the Golden Age, is the boldest and most adventurous.


I’ll offer NSWGC as a starter. The path it takes across and through the dunes at 3, 5, 9, 12, 14 and 15 is pretty daring though the course is a comfortable walk.


(I’ve left out the Apperly-routed 8th and 17th as they were arguably post-Golden Age changes, and though he moved the 15th green, the hole still played through the saddle so I am including it)


I am mindful of the likes of Cruden Bay, Lahinch, Ballynunion etc, but suspect some if not all were routed pre-GA and then updated during the era.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Good question, Scott.


Many of the really bold routings on links land came pre-GA and sometimes you have to question right through GCA whether some of the bold routings came through choice or necessity.


But I think Yale’s routing has some bold choices. Others would be in a better position to tell if there are better examples in the States.


In the UK, I think Braid is the most likely candidate. The other big names of the time (with the possible exception of Simpson) were more conservative in their hole corridor choices.

[Sean_A]

I may be wrong, but it could well be that the choice of site created the necessity for bold routings.  An immediate example of Perranporth comes to mind.  I have no idea of what other routings could be done on the site, but if the dunes are going to be involved it likely means that some in your face holes will be the result.  Church Stretton is another example.  This is how I think of Yale as well...very bold site, considering what it took to create the course.

Addington is one example of a bold site whose bold routing was tackled fairly easily with the use of bridges.  There are of course other holes such as 8, 12 and 16 which are very bold holes which don't need bridges.  Its a great shame the course is so poorly presented.

There are a few other very bold routings that come to mind, but I believe the bones of which are pre-golden age.  For very different reasons because the terrain isn't harsh, OTM's double loop routing at Muirfield must have seemed very bold for the time and still stands as a monument of design...though Colt wrongly gets all the credit.  Then of course there is Painswick!
 
Ciao

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Prestwick?

[James Brown]

Fishers Island. 

[Ally Mcintosh]

Well I guess Prestwick’s boldness was all pre-golden age.


I don’t know Fisher’s Island but it would be going some to be bolder than Yale, both in some routing choices and in scale of features.


Very few of the great architects in the last 100 years have gone out of their way to make largely quirky choices with major hole corridors, more’s the pity.

[Michael Wolf]

Bel Air

[Doug Hodgson]

 Cape Breton Highlands

[Kalen Braley]

I think this is a good question although i'm struggling a bit for context on what you mean by bold.


I could posit Pasatiempo and ANGC are bold, but it may not be what you're looking for.

[Thomas Dai]

Kington, Perranporth and Welshpool come to mind. Pennard too (although maybe a bit early in timeframe)?
I suspect Fowler’s original West Course at Saunton might have been pretty bold.
Most likely numerous there are U.K. hilltop-Common land courses that could be categorises as bold routing but the thread title mentions ‘great’ so some might not be totally appropriate?
Atb

[Ira Fishman]

I generally do not comment on courses I have not seen but the Yale answer (which is a great answer and which I have played) prompted a return visit to the Whippoorwill Courses by Country. It looks extremely bold. Charles Banks did the engineering on both Yale and Whippoorwill I believe.


Ira

[Tim Martin]

Fishers Island.

Six of the nine inward holes at Fishers play into the prevailing wind which make the finish difficult but no less compelling. Trying to steal a few pars coming in is yeoman’s work.

[Kyle Henderson]

Never played Bel Air, but it was the first to come to mind what I have studied.




Routing the cart path through a tunnel under the double green at Tot Hill Farm seemed pretty bold, but that was designed in the second golden age.

[corey miller]

Might we be conflating great courses  with great routings?


I very much liked NSWGC which is a "bold course" but if memory serves wasn't Tom Doak less than enthused with the routing in the original confidential guide?


Are we sure that Yale and Fishers and Whipporwill and NSWGC are great routings? or is any superior course produced on a difficult site a great routing?


I very much like all of the above but is #10 Yale bold and great or just bold? and how do I know when I have not a clue about routing?


All would agree Hudson National is a difficult site and rankings/ratings say it is superior....Great bold routing?

[Scott Warren]

I very much liked NSWGC which is a "bold course" but if memory serves wasn't Tom Doak less than enthused with the routing in the original confidential guide?

Just checked. Regarding NSWGC’s routing, he wrote:


“I think the routing is excellent, with holes that attack the hills from all angles”.

[Tom_Doak]

Bel Air

Yes!


Yale is another good answer.  St Enodoc has a bold routing.  And I’m surprised Pebble Beach has not come up yet.

[Jon Wiggett]

I would suggest Ogden with its use of the valley then going up to the high moorland before the precipitous decent on the 17th and back to the clubhouse. Otherwise Boat of Garten uses the land exceptionally well but in a way that very few current GCAs would be bold enough to do.

[Phil McDade]

I would suggest Ogden with its use of the valley then going up to the high moorland before the precipitous decent on the 17th and back to the clubhouse. Otherwise Boat of Garten uses the land exceptionally well but in a way that very few current GCAs would be bold enough to do.

Jon:


Re. the Boat -- how so? I'm as a big of a fan of BofG as anyone on the board, I believe, but its routing is largely a product of its confined space, no? Agree that Braid made great use of the land, but that's a tightly confined site. What holes would you suggest make use of bold routing? Again, I view it as a terrific inland course -- one of Scotland's best?

[Jon Wiggett]

Phil,


as far as I am aware from snippets of information I have seen over the years Braid had more land to work with than he ended up using. Meaning the confined effect of the course especially at the far end was to a certain extent self imposed.



Also the decision to start with a par 3 laid out on the only flat land was brave (this is not the insipid and inferior starter that now greets the golfer).


The blind shots on the 6th and par 5 13th(?) when the easy option would have been to perch the greens in sight on top of the slopes.


Going sideways across the property in the middle section around 3, 14 & 15 when staying inline with the rest of the course which would have possibly yielded more length and avoided crossing the ravine on the 14th. Finally the fact that the OOB is only on the right when it would have been easier to have reversed this especially around the clubhouse end.


Braid made several bold decisions which could have led to much criticism but such was his skill in routing, rhythm and flow of the course these compromises never really strike the player until they are pointed out.


Jon

[Ally Mcintosh]

The more I think about it, the more I believe Braid wasn’t afraid to drop in blind shots and bold routing choices regularly, unlike most of his golden age peers. Boat, St Enedoc, Perranporth, Pennard, Gleneagles Kings, Irvine Bogside... The list goes on.


Perhaps this is because he really had one foot in the pre-golden age era and wasn’t as much of a strategic visionary as the Colts or MacKenzies.


But I think his courses are all the better for it and we should sometimes remember that just because we had a golden age, it doesn’t mean it improved on everything!


(Calling Melvyn)

[Niall C]

Well I guess Prestwick’s boldness was all pre-golden age.

Ally

I'm pretty sure Melvyn would disagree with you but I'd also suggest the problem with including courses like Prestwick is how much was by necessity and how much was the gca being bold ?

Niall

[Jonathan Mallard]

Isn't Royal County Down in the GA vintage?

[Ally Mcintosh]

Well I guess Prestwick’s boldness was all pre-golden age.

Ally

I'm pretty sure Melvyn would disagree with you but I'd also suggest the problem with including courses like Prestwick is how much was by necessity and how much was the gca being bold ?

Niall

You’ll need to educate me on this one.


Weren’t the Cardinal, Alps and Himalayas (the main routing boldness) all there in the 1800’s? From an era when hitting over dunes was part of the fun?

[Mark Pearce]

Of those I have played and so far mentioned here, I think Yale and NSW are strong shouts.  I think the boldest I have played, however, is Royal Hague. 


Is Newcastle of the right era?

[Brad Tufts]

On the early end, Essex County Club in MA.


When Ross re-designed the course into the entity is it today, it was one of the first (if not the first) to use dynamite and mechanized construction vehicles to make golf holes.  This was 1914-1915.


The original course was over flatter ground near the clubhouse, but the back nine goes around then up a large hill with lots of entertaining undulation.