Lahinch vs Renaissance Club on TV

[Rob Rigg]

The three weeks of the Irish Open, Scottish Open and The Open are my favorite time to watch golf on TV due to the linksiness.

Lahinch was brilliant with drives and approach shots running here, there and everywhere, while the Renaissance Club hasn't been nearly as "fun" to watch, and I'd imagine the heavy rains have much to do with it.

Doak rated Lahinch an 8 and RC a 7 in the updated Confidential Guide.

Based on the telly Lahinch looked like a 9 (which aligns with Ran and Masa's CG rating, and where I'd put it myself) and RC is probably a 6 (which is where Masa and Darius Oliver rated it in the CG).
For those who have played the RC -

What's your Doak rating?

Has the weather and the TV's tendency to flatten out terrain made it seem less interesting than it really is?
Does RC play super linksy in dry weather? The trees and some of the thicker grass off the beaten path lend a bit of a parkland feel so maybe it isn't as ground game friendly as the local "classics"?

Where would you rate the RC versus it's neighbors in the area such as Muirfield, North Berwick, Gullane, etc. in terms of "fun to play" factor?
How would you compare the overall playing experience of Lahinch to the RC (beyond one being open for public play)? i.e. Does the telly align with reality.

Insights appreciated in advance - Can't wait for Portrush!

[Thomas Dai]

I've enjoyed watching both and am looking forward to viewing The Open as well.
As to watching on TV, even being there, a sea view has a huge impact, even more so from on-high. As do open sand and bunkers. That part of Renaissance alongside the sea with the beach, rocks, headland and views across to Fife too looked stunning.
Imagine a 200ft wall immediately adjacent to the seaward side of any currently stunning golf course. I suspect many folks opinion of the course would change considerably if they weren't able to view the sea and/or beach.
atb

[Mark Pearce]

I played RC in its original routing and before they narrowed the fairways.  That day it was reasonably fast and firm, though the then immature greens weren’t as smooth or fast.  In that set up I loved it and would have rated it only behind Muirfield in the town of Gullane.  I’m not Tom Doak so I can’t give a Doak rating.  Best new course I have played in the UK and not a long way behind the Barnbougle courses anywhere (of the few I have played)

[Sean_A]

Mark

I too have a lot of time for RC despite the harsh rough being too close to fairways which could be a bit wider.  When I was there the rough was incredibly harsh and I think this was the first thing said by one and all.  Its a shame to speak of rough in the first sentence when describing such an interesting course. 

RC gets a solid Doak 7 from me, just as good as the much more touted Trump Aberdeen, but Lahinch tips more toward 8.  Simply put, I like funk and Lahinch has more of it than RC. Both get 1* from me.

For tv, RC may be easier to get because the property is much less rambunctious than Lahinch.  I always feel these sorts of courses need proper 3d tv to really get a grip.  Chambers Bay convinced me of that!

Ciao

[Ronald Montesano]

Since both are "new" to the touring professionals, no advantages came to the table prior to each one's week under the klieg lights.


I can't give a course assessment from the flat screen. It is known for adding pounds, after all, so who knows how thin/fat these courses really are...


I can say that I have been thrilled to watch both events, and I look forward to Portrush, Lytham and Woburn in the coming weeks. It used to be a rare opportunity for the northeastern USA viewer to see these courses; to have them on the tube for 5 consecutive weeks, well, it's heaven.

[Niall C]

Rob


In terms of comparing courses and firmness, you are really looking at a snapshot of each and therefore unfair to make any really comparison as to what the course is like "normally". All courses are subject to thew weather, none more so than links. I suspect that a few weeks ago RC was playing as hard and fast as Lahinch and probably will be again in a few weeks time.


As to Doak ratings, I've no idea but I bet everyone who attended yesterday left eager to get a chance toi play the course, and for those lucky enough to have played it already, to get back again. As an aside, even though I've played there a few times I'd forgotten how much elevational change you get across the golf course. I also forgot how much movement there was on the greens even if a lot of it is relatively subtle, it's just you don't really see that sort of stuff on TV unless it's had and fast enough for the balls to take the borrow. Unfortunately that hasn't been the case this week.


Niall

[Michael Whitaker]

I’ve had the good fortune of playing both Lahinch and RC a few times and both are wonderful. To me, they mainly differ in the “rambunctiousness” of the property and the basic way they punish or reward shots. I felt RC was more punishing to indifferent shots, especially around the greens, while Lahinch will often provide a favorable bounce and give you a chance to recover. Overall, I found RC to be a more difficult scoring course than Lahinch, which is why I am really shocked at the way the pros are tearing it apart.

[Rob Rigg]

Thanks for the responses guys - Much appreciated.
They've said "soft" about a thousand times on the GC broadcast which is always unfortunate when having the opportunity to watch links golf.

Some serious wind to dry it out would have been most welcome to see the balling rolling around a bit more, which as mentioned, allow the viewer to get a feel for the contours and movement.

Rambunctious is a great word to describe Lahinch and the elevation changes and proximity to the Atlantic certainly provide a lot of amazing vista and tee shots (e.g. the 7th).

[Kalen Braley]

Rob,

They said on the telecast yesterday that the tournament set a new record for number of birdies in European Tour event history.  I knew they was going at it, but that's nuts...

As for how they looked on TV, while they both looked terrific, I lean towards Lahinch.  I really love quirk and it looks like its got it in bunches!!

[George Pazin]

Both Lahinch and Renaissance Club look far more compelling than most of what we are offered here in the good ole USA. I can't even begin to imagine the mindset of anyone who would assign a Doak number based on professional play during a very specific time period that is largely the domain of mother nature, but hey, if that's your game, have at it.


I will agree that the Irish Open, Scottish Open and Open Championship represent a trifecta that we can't approach here.


But no one else can approach it either. Not my friends down under, not on the US tour, not in Japan, nowhere. Maybe if they moved the old LA Open to late March, and then had Riviera, TPC Sawgrass, Augusta in back to back to back weeks, we could see that. I kinda doubt that will ever happen.

[Ronald Montesano]

Play the Scottish Open on a firm and fast Renaissance Club, and I bet you have a near-record for fewest birdies in a European Tour event.

[Peter Pallotta]

An aside, from the sidelines:
While I understand & appreciate the Doak Scale in general, I find it most interesting when he assigns a number to one of his own courses. What makes the Renaissance Club a 7 in Tom's eyes? He knows (and has proven that he knows) how to design and build 9s and 10s -- and I'm sure he didn't suddenly forget how, or decide that this time out he'd just aim for a 6 or 7 instead. So does the difference in the Doak scores
between, say, a Pacific Dunes and the RC, all come down to the land, ie to the quality of the site (in its natural state) the he began with and had to work with? And/or did the couple of 10s right close by in the neighbourhood influence his assessment of the relative quality of the course?
(By the way, I'm starting to get a bit suspicious about this Darius fellow -- I think he secretly loves eye candy!)

[Thomas Dai]

A links or near links course playing soft with little or no wind in July usually means low scores.
Dry fairways and wind is another matter.
Very dry fairways and lots of wind, even more challenging.
And another thing, the three week Irish-Scottish-The Open links swing is held in mid-summer weather in the UK on courses that have been prepped for ages.
Hold these events earlier in the year, when courses won’t have had the time coming out of the winter for quite as much prepping and the weather is colder and generally usually worse and the scoring and results are likely to be rather different.
And at times in the past The Open has been held at many different times of year from May through October.
Atb

[Ronald Montesano]

Peter,


You mention part of it (the land and the soil) but the other part would deal with the routing restrictions, the needs of the owners (practice areas, clubhouse location) local roadways and statutes, and myriad other elements that we on the other side of the veil do not know, much less consider. I believe that Tom has indicated that they can't all be tens; if he hasn't, he should.


rm