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John Foley

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Berkley Hall North - Fazio
« on: October 22, 2003, 04:14:40 PM »
Played this relatively new "core" golf property last weekend outside of HIlton Head, SC. I found the place to be almost over the top in ammenities outside the golf course. Clubhouse is absolutely immense, bag attendents and a few other things we're almost too much. (The guy at the gate had a tie on for cryin out loud!) The range & practice area may be the best I've ever seen. The devleopment is a few years old and they are trying to sell homes (which are very removed from the "core" golf courses) and a lifestyle and you can tell.

Once you hit the tee it very much a differnet story. Fazio has taken a painfully flat site (is there anythiong but in that area?) moved a tremendous amount of earth and delivered a superb course that is both challenging and beautifull. A few positives about the course:

Chipping area's - excellent use of them and w/ some of the grren siide slopes it was easy w/ an agressive put to find yourself off the green.

Greens - Sloping, tiered, greens w/in greens & a few false fronts. Extremely fine putting surfaces. Didn't ask if they we're bermuda, they could have been bent thought. Very fast & true.

Water hazard - It was very refreshing to find a course where, for the most part, the hazards we're on one side and the option to play wide was given. Only the approach to the par 5 7th and the par 3 16th was over water.

Walkability - The course is routed w/ the walker in mind. Very close tee-green complexes. Caddies available, but that may not last.

Rather than go into a hole by hole review, I'll drop a few of the  standouts (yardage from the blue tee's).

#2 Par 5 502 yrds. Smoke the drive down the right side and you can get home in two. Water all down the left side penalizes the hook. Green has a few run off area's.

#5 Par 4 410 yrds. Straight w/ Bunkers pinching the LZ right and left. Water right. Carry the right bunker you get a little turbo boost. Green is wide but shallow and sloping front to back. Bunkers short and right make missing short a tough recovery.

#6 Par 3 199 yards. Slightly uphill par 3 w/ huge bunker short & left. Lots of room on the right, but the native grasses make it blind to that area. Backside of the bunker integrates the green and carries any ball hit there back and left.

#7 Par 5 546 yards. Hole is shapped like and upside down & backwards J w/ the center being a water hazard. Bunkers in LZ w/ plently of roles in the FW. Many an uneven lie. Cutting across the hazard w/ a well struck drive offers a go at the green which slopes back left to fron right w/ slopes on each side repelling all but the perfectly struck golf shot.

#8 Par 3 141 yards. All the fill out of the hazard on # 7 was used to build up the tee on # 8. Plays downhill to a small green w/ a false front and bunkers short center & long right. Missing long in the bunker will leave an impossible shot trying  to stay on the green

#14 Par 3 207 yards. Best hole on the course IMHO. Green is huge w/ large bunkers short & left. Green has a false front. Any ball which tries to run up will either find the bunker or the chipping area to the right unless it's played perfectly. Green has three distinct area's and trying to get from to one from the bunker or chipping are'a is quite a feat.

On the negative side:

Native grasses (is it love grass or something else?) while placed somewhat open, they made bad misses amost unplayable.

#9 & #18 are mirror holes seperated by a water hazard (on left for #9 on right for #18). While in and of themselves, they may have been two of the tougher holes, finishing each nine w/ a somewhat identical hole was a little downer.

Like I said Fazio moved tremendous amounts of earth but made it work. The golf is challenging and the playing field a tremendous site. I did not get to see nor play the South, but from what I understand the North is the much better course. I would expect many to enjoy the course and would be shocked to find even the most adamanet Fazio basher very surprised by course.

One last note, I am amazed by the amount of golf popping up in the Bluffton area. On the private side you've got 36 at Berkley Hall, Belfair & Colleton River and Oldefield around the corner. On the public side it's HH National, Old South, Old Carolina, Cresecent Pointe & Eagles Ponite and a few others. I had always thought of Hilton Head as a destination, but other than drinks & dinner one night we played for 4 days and never saw HH Island. While Harbour Town and Long Cove are reportedly great places, I don't feel we missed much.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2003, 04:15:04 PM by john_foley »
Integrity in the moment of choice

Tim_Weiman

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Re:Berkley Hall North - Fazio
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2003, 04:24:10 PM »
John Foley:

Nice report. Excellent in terms of balance and detail.

I was struck by your comment about the practice area being the best you've seen. Does your experience include places like World Woods or Bandon Dunes?
Tim Weiman

Robert Emmons

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Re:Berkley Hall North - Fazio
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2003, 04:29:20 PM »
The practice area is better than Belfairs???

John Foley

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Re:Berkley Hall North - Fazio
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2003, 04:35:12 PM »
Tim,

You've got to see the place. When I saw Bandon it was the first year and I think it has expanded since then. In terms of WW's, their short game area was amazing (there are no practice holes at Berkley) and the rangel is just as impressive.

Emmrob - I did not get to sdee Belfair's practice area. We stayed in a house there, but did not get out. I walked through the proshop, but must have missed the range.
Integrity in the moment of choice

DPL11

Re:Berkley Hall North - Fazio
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2003, 04:38:01 PM »
John,
I went on a 5 day golf trip last March with 11 other guys. We stayed in 2 of the golf cottages on the driving range. We had a fantastic time. The range is outstanding. Short game chipping area is one of the best I've ever seen. The greens on the North are bent and bermuda on the South. The staff and accomadations were top-notch. We enjoyed both courses very much. We did the same trip the year before at Belfair, and had an equally good time. That area, and developer keep pumping out great high-end private facilities. I would definately reccomend Berkley Hall or Belfair to any group that wants to get away in the Spring or Fall, and just play lots of golf. There isn't much else to do anyway.

DPL11

DPL11

Re:Berkley Hall North - Fazio
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2003, 04:46:35 PM »
emmrob,
Belfair's range is also top-notch, but if I had to choose, I would give the nod to Berkley Hall.
The short game area alone puts it over the top.

DPL11

John Foley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Berkley Hall North - Fazio
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2003, 04:51:12 PM »
DPL11,

Can you give an idea on which complex had the better golf? Berkley or Belfair? We stayed at Belfair, but didn't get out. Definetly had a more lay of the land feel to it as compared to Berkely.  
Integrity in the moment of choice

Robert Emmons

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Berkley Hall North - Fazio
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2003, 04:51:29 PM »
Thanks for the info, I have played Belfair many times, never Berkley...Do you prefer one over the other...RHE

DPL11

Re:Berkley Hall North - Fazio
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2003, 05:00:31 PM »
John & emmrob
The older of the 2 courses at Belfair was in rough shape when I was there in 2002, but was probably my favorite layout of the 4 courses. They were getting ready to close it and re-grass the entire property. The other was in super shape.
I enjoyed the 2 courses at Belfair more than Berkley, but not by much.
Overall golfing experience goes to Berkley Hall. The whole package and presentation was as good as it gets for a golf trip.

DPL11

SteveTL

Re:Berkley Hall North - Fazio
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2003, 11:21:54 PM »
I was there a couple of months ago.  Everything at Berkley Hall is over the top.  The "zero-edged" entry lake, gate attendant wearing tie and complimentary blazer, austentatious golf clubhouse (nothing understated about it), and yes - an unbelievable 36 holes of golf.

I've been to WW several times, and the entire practice area has never been fully open.  The magnitude of WW is enormous, but the practice area at Berkley is better scaled, in perfect condition, and more useful.  

To me, Belfair is more "comfortable" - more understated, and the allee' of Oaks at the entry is awesome.  For golf - I'd take Berkley Hall.

John Engelbrecht

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Berkley Hall North - Fazio
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2003, 06:21:00 PM »
I have had the opportunity to play all of the courses at Colleton, Berkley and Belfair. The "amenitities" at Berkley are over the top. Far and away the best practice area I have ever seen!

I agree the golf off island is now far better than HHI. I prefer Colleton for the distinct differences in the two courses. The Nicklaus (IMO) may be some of his best work. The back nine on the Dye course is very memorable. Second is Belfair, both are Fazio...conditions had suffered but thanks to improved weather are much improved.

Alas, as much as I would like to talk up Berkely, I can't. I find the courses very forgettable. His new concept is Core Golf, houses built around the course not throughout the course. Any way you slice it it is still a real estate development. Very much  manufactured courses. Having played the course(s) a couple of times each year I still have trouble remembering more than a couple of the holes out of the 36.

IMO
1. Colleton-Nicklaus
2. Colleton-Dye
3. Belfair-West
4. Belfair-East
5. Berkley-North
6. Berkley-South

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Berkley Hall North - Fazio
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2003, 07:27:08 PM »
Just out of curiosity, doesn't your description of #2 kind of illustrate what many of Fazio's critics say - that is, if the route to get home in 2 is right, isn't the water left just eye candy?

Contrast this with your description of #5, which sounds like the more conventional definition of strategic: water right, challenge the right bunker gets you the turbo boost.

Regardless, thanks for the thoughtful writeup.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Stephen Brown

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Berkley Hall North - Fazio
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2003, 07:02:00 AM »


John-

I am a PGA Assistant Golf Professional here at the Berkeley Hall.  The greens on the North Course are a Crenshaw Bent.  It is interesting to note that Brad Klein in a review of the SOuth Course (GOLFWEEK), staed that the North Course contains a "dreadful finishing sequence".  I e-mailed Brad about this, his reference was to 16-18.  16 is the little Par 3 over the water, and 17 is the bender to the left, with a tree on the left side of the fairway blocking approaches.  Brad touched upon the point that 17's green was angled the wrong way for an approach from the right side of the fairway.  Difficult yes, dreadful, IMO no.  Care to comment.

I have been waiting a long time to here one of the regulars on this site comment on the North Course here at BH.  Wilth all of the typical anti-Fazio sentiment, it would be nice for more to see this.  John, did the mounding an elevation changes look contrived to you ?  I know that TURBOE was down here last spring, but never commented.  It would be great to here from more who have played this course to help me train my eye to be more critical/observant.  PS GCA is usually on the monitor directly behind the counter in the golfshop.

Thanks,

Stephen Brown

John Foley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Berkley Hall North - Fazio
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2003, 09:29:19 AM »
Stephen,

I did not think the mounding and elevation build up was contrived. Especially how the 6 tee thru 9th tee seemed "flow" together in a rolling manner, if that makes sense. It is very easy to see the shaping that went on, but found it fitting the flow of the course nicely. As for 16-18, I liked 16 a lot, and thought that bunker front right fit great. Missed 17 and played 18 in some fading daylight, but it was a tough finisher. Don't know if I'd agree w/ the dreadfull finisher statement. We absolutely loved #14, how do the others feel about it?

I'll also send you an IM on something else.
Integrity in the moment of choice

John Foley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Berkley Hall North - Fazio
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2003, 09:40:10 AM »
George,

The better layup on #2 is to the left. Pull the layup & your screwed. Bunker short right leaves a tough pitch either over it or if you go for it and end up in it a tough shot. Knowing that you can't go for it and pull it left or your sleepin' with the fishes.
Integrity in the moment of choice

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Berkley Hall North - Fazio
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2003, 10:22:29 AM »
Thanks, John - that makes things clearer.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04