Rule 18.2 Time to search for ball

[Tim Martin]

The time for a ball search(before the ball becomes lost) has been reduced from 5 minutes to 3 minutes with the underlying intent of speeding up play. It will be interesting to see over time if some native areas are scaled back or even eliminated as a result. Being on a greens committee just became a tougher job.

[Jim Sherma]

It'll also get fun for tournament committees/club pro's in the spring when clubs fall behind in mowing the rough.

[Pete_Pittock]

Tim,
You can always declare them to be a penalty area. 

[John Kavanaugh]

This will save my feet when I play in Arizona.

[Chad Anderson (Tennessee)]

You can still play a provisional ball.


You can be more aggressive in your search now too.  Instead of tip toeing through the rough hoping you don't cause  your ball to move, you can search without the worry of movement.  If it is moved on accident simply place it back and play on, no penalty.

[John Kavanaugh]

People will now look where they want the ball to be lost instead of where it was lost so they can take advantage of the new drop rule. Provisionals are for suckers.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

People will now look where they want the ball to be lost instead of where it was lost so they can take advantage of the new drop rule. Provisionals are for suckers.

Finding your ball is still going to be better than a two-stroke penalty.

[John Kavanaugh]

People will now look where they want the ball to be lost instead of where it was lost so they can take advantage of the new drop rule. Provisionals are for suckers.

Finding your ball is still going to be better than a two-stroke penalty.

There simply are not unplayable drops deep in the woods or gunch. I play an uber penal course that takes pride in not having any out of bounds. Here already in January I had a long hitting opponent who was getting a stroke take a drop under the new rules in front of my ball that was in the fairway. I hit driver off the deck up near the green as he hit five iron on. I end up losing the hole. I had made a living playing long hitting goons and giving them strokes because after two in the gunch they would forfeit the hole. Thank God it is a local rule as we can pray that serious courses do not implement it in important matches.


Come on, who hasn't found a ball of an opponent 70 yds behind where they were looking?

[Erik J. Barzeski]

There simply are not unplayable drops deep in the woods or gunch. I play an uber penal course that takes pride in not having any out of bounds. Here already in January I had a long hitting opponent who was getting a stroke take a drop under the new rules in front of my ball that was in the fairway. I hit driver off the deck up near the green as he hit five iron on. I end up losing the hole.

Play better. He was hitting four (hitting three with his stroke), you were hitting two, and you still lost the hole.


Or, don't play with the Local Rule in effect. It's not going to be in effect for any type of higher level tournament, including probably most club championships and everything above that.

Come on, who hasn't found a ball of an opponent 70 yds behind where they were looking?

It's up to you and the group to determine where the ball is likely to be.

[John Kavanaugh]

Erik,


I was giving him a stroke. After my chip we technically laid the same. After a lost ball, with his stroke, he gets a putt for par on the number 1 handicap hole.


One reason I have been able to play a serious money game with the same people for over 20 years is because stroke and distance eliminates controversy. A few of these guys are high handicap players. We have a responsibility to the other members of the course to play as quickly as possible. If they club culture calls for instituting the new rules we will have no choice as it is obviously faster than hitting at least one provisional off every tee out of the foursome. Yea, the course is that hard.


Here is what will happen. We will quit inviting guys who get a ton of strokes into our game. That's good for the game as nothing speeds up play like fewer golfers. You know that everyone on the course is going to have a bad day if they see and hear one group hitting six or seven tee shots off any one hole when the club has instituted this new rule. It's like the optics of a fivesome.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

I was giving him a stroke. After my chip we technically laid the same. After a lost ball, with his stroke, he gets a putt for par on the number 1 handicap hole.

I accounted for that stroke. The fact of the matter is that you were hitting your second after your tee shot, and even with the stroke, he was hitting his third. He beat you by two FROM THERE. Play better golf. You hit the ball three times, he hit the ball two times… AND had two penalty strokes. And from there he apparently out-putted you.

Had he teed off again, he'd be lying the same three shots hitting four. Yeah, he may have hit another OB/lost, but he also might have piped one and had even less in to the green.

If they club culture calls for instituting the new rules we will have no choice as it is obviously faster than hitting at least one provisional off every tee out of the foursome.

It's still faster to hit a provisional. When you don't, you still have to end your search, and then figure out amongst your group where the truncated "pie slice" is located, and then the guy has to figure out where to drop (in the rough here with this angle, on the edge of the fairway with this angle…?).

Hitting a provisional will still take less time.

And again, don't play the Local Rule if you don't want to.

[John Kavanaugh]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the new rule will benefit the high handicapper 1 out of 10 times applied. Bookies get rich on a 10% vig. Our only choice will be not to play. Gambling games that last for 20 years don't just fall out of the sky.


As far as ignoring club rules and doing what we want. Fivesomes are not allowed no matter how quickly they play simply for one reason. Optics. A group hitting multiple provisionals will be the same thing no matter where the truth lies.

[Kalen Braley]

Another thing to consider John.

High cappers rarely get up and down from the fairway more than 100 yards out and especially so over 150 yards out.  So if you're playing a high capper and giving him a stroke, and he's net 3 from the fairway taking his drop, he's making net bogey or worse probably 90-95% of the time.  Whereas I would guess, you're still making your par at least 50% of the time if you're a 5.

Seems like good odds for you...

[John Kavanaugh]

Having a high handicap re-tee is better odds for me than letting him take a drop in the fairway in front of my drive. Like I said, it's a 10% vig.


Can't we all agree that every rule that promotes a golfer putting his hand on his ball is bad for the game?

[Kalen Braley]

Perhaps John, I can see part of your point in that last statement.

I haven't played as many different players as you but I've yet to meet a 5 capper who couldn't regularly blow it 50 yards past the vast majority of Highcappers.  If they're insisting they went past you by a good bit, you probably got bigger problems on your hands.

[John Kavanaugh]

I miss a fairway about as often as I miss lunch. I carry five wedges and don't hit an iron outside of 150 yds. People who can't out drive me have one insurmountable problem with their game. They're dead


One thing many people don't understand is that to be a 5 handicap at a penal course you don't need to break 80. It's really not all that difficult to par half the holes if you just chip the ball along down the middle. Sadly, it takes a lifetime to figure out. This is why that if you peel the onion back far enough you will discover that most high handicappers are actually kind of ignorant. This new rule unfortunately for me limits their ignorance as it will eliminate multiple lost balls off the tee.

[Kalen Braley]

John,

I'm not sure the case you're trying to make, but if you're claiming you hit the fairway more than most, then as a betting man I'd be putting even more money on you in this scenario.

You give a high capper a 4-5 iron from 170 out from the fairway and he's hitting that green maybe 1 in 10. If he's in the rough, maybe 1 in 50.  So if you in the fairway lying 1, you can lay sod over your next shot and still better off than the high capper on a lost ball net 3 drop.

[John Kavanaugh]

I'm only saying this rule helps the high handicapper 1 out of 10 times resulting in either a win or a tie instead of a loss. Don't you believe that 1 out of 10 times a high handicap jacks one ball out of bounds his provisional follows. This alone is eliminated.


Don't you believe that this rule will reduce the number of double digit scores during the round for all handicaps? We play a game that kicks in huge bonus money when a golfer makes a 9 or higher. That's basically out the window now.

[Kalen Braley]

I'm only saying this rule helps the high handicapper 1 out of 10 times resulting in either a win or a tie instead of a loss. Don't you believe that 1 out of 10 times a high handicap jacks one ball out of bounds his provisional follows. This alone is eliminated.


Don't you believe that this rule will reduce the number of double digit scores during the round for all handicaps? We play a game that kicks in huge bonus money when a golfer makes a 9 or higher. That's basically out the window now.

John,

I can see your point on hitting net 3 with the drop under the new rules.  But I think what should also be factored in is that as a high capper myself i rarely hit two balls in a row OB, (unless its a difficult hole).  So that guy most of the time is probably getting something in play on his next shot anyways and still hitting net 3.

But in the spirit of the original rules, I understand why this rule shouldn't be allowed in tournaments, but for every day play will almost certainly speed up play.


P.S.  I don't know the new ESC rules, but I can't recall the last time i ever posted a double digit score on any hole! But even if you're opponent is scoring 7 or 8 on any hole and you can't win that hole as a 5 capper, you didn't deserve to right?

[Peter Flory]

If the rule is helpful to them, won't their handicaps quickly adjust?

[John Kavanaugh]

If the rule is helpful to them, won't their handicaps quickly adjust?

As has been pointed out many times, modern equipment has not lowered handicaps, so I doubt modern rules will either.

[John Kavanaugh]

I'm only saying this rule helps the high handicapper 1 out of 10 times resulting in either a win or a tie instead of a loss. Don't you believe that 1 out of 10 times a high handicap jacks one ball out of bounds his provisional follows. This alone is eliminated.


Don't you believe that this rule will reduce the number of double digit scores during the round for all handicaps? We play a game that kicks in huge bonus money when a golfer makes a 9 or higher. That's basically out the window now.

John,

I can see your point on hitting net 3 with the drop under the new rules.  But I think what should also be factored in is that as a high capper myself i rarely hit two balls in a row OB, (unless its a difficult hole).  So that guy most of the time is probably getting something in play on his next shot anyways and still hitting net 3.

But in the spirit of the original rules, I understand why this rule shouldn't be allowed in tournaments, but for every day play will almost certainly speed up play.


P.S.  I don't know the new ESC rules, but I can't recall the last time i ever posted a double digit score on any hole! But even if you're opponent is scoring 7 or 8 on any hole and you can't win that hole as a 5 capper, you didn't deserve to right?

Kalen,


I've been a winner at everything I've done my entire life and I can assure you that I rarely have gotten what I deserve.

[Kalen Braley]

JK,

Now there is some honesty everyone can appreciate.  While I'm not batting 1.000% like you, I've had my fair share of good fortune that was certainly not due to anything I did!

P.S.  I think this exercise really sort of shows to me in yet another way that the game is in desperate need of bifurcation.  One set of rules for serious golfers in serious competitions....and everyone else...

[Erik J. Barzeski]

As far as ignoring club rules and doing what we want. Fivesomes are not allowed no matter how quickly they play simply for one reason. Optics. A group hitting multiple provisionals will be the same thing no matter where the truth lies.

That's not against the Rules of Golf and shouldn't be against "club rules" either.

Can't we all agree that every rule that promotes a golfer putting his hand on his ball is bad for the game?

No.

As has been pointed out many times, modern equipment has not lowered handicaps, so I doubt modern rules will either.

And it's been wrong every time it's been stated. Modern handicaps are down about two shots on average over the handicaps of about 20 years ago.


1 in 10 is likely drastically over-stated.

[Ira Fishman]

I miss a fairway about as often as I miss lunch. I carry five wedges and don't hit an iron outside of 150 yds. People who can't out drive me have one insurmountable problem with their game. They're dead


Sorry to interrupt a serious debate, but it is only January and it is going to be difficult to top this paragraph for humor in 2019.


Ira