C&C to lead rejuvenation of Kapalua

[Joel_Stewart]

Bill Coore used as interesting term in discussing his upcoming work at Kapalua. It's not a renovation or restoration but a rejuvenation.


Additionally,  Mark Rolfing said Kapalua has become easy for the pros and too difficult for everyday guests. They hope to reverse that.

https://www.golf.com/courses-and-travel/2018/03/15/kapaluas-plantation-course-close-major-facelift

[mike_beene]

Not to get this off topic, but will the resort only have one course for the time Plantation is closed? Is the Village course overgrown? I guess a new course was never started there?

[Jeff Evagues]

The Village course is long gone. A new design was supposed to go up but was abandoned years ago. They recently moved the Bay clubhouse to the old Village clubhouse and renumbered the holes - 1 is the old no. 7 now.

[George Pazin]

Additionally,  Mark Rolfing said Kapalua has become easy for the pros and too difficult for everyday guests. They hope to reverse that.

It will be interesting to see how they approach this. Kapalua remains one of the few pro events I still look in on. Part of that is the contrast with our Burgh climate versus Hawaii's...but I do think the course appears to be one of the more compelling, interesting courses on the tour pro circuit.

[BCrosby]

I'm with George. Kapalua is one of the few regular tour events I watch. The golf course calls for shots unlike those called for by any other course on the Tour. I wish pros played more courses like it.


I look forward to seeing how C&C solve the "too easy for pros, too hard for punters" conundrum. (If it really is a conundrum. Never played the course.) There are obvious similarities to the challenges TD is taking on in Houston and Wisconsin.


Bob

[John Kavanaugh]

Let's not forget that Kapalua airs during prime time because of the Hawaii location. Watching golf between 3 ad 5 in the afternoon is reserved for April and Fathers Day.

[Kalen Braley]

The article mentions the "how"

- Adding a bunch of up tees for resort guests.
- For the pros, adding a few back tees and re grassing everything so its fast and firm again and they have to bounce in approach shots instead of land and stick.

[Peter Pallotta]

The article mentions the "how"

- Adding a bunch of up tees for resort guests.
- For the pros, adding a few back tees and re grassing everything so its fast and firm again and they have to bounce in approach shots instead of land and stick.

That's too bad. I was thinking the plan might be to lop off from 400-600 yards for everyone, move up (and reduce the number of) tees, and have the pros play it at 70 and the rest of us at 72. But that's the reason they're C&C and I'm not.

[Tim Martin]

Firmer is certainly better for holes like 18 where there are a myriad of options available to the players and said conditions would make it more fun for the regular player as well. As a spectator I can’t imagine there are many better places to camp out than flanking or behind 18 green in the grandstands.

[Matthew Rose]

The one time I played it, it was super wet, and there were only three sets of tees, with giant gaps (sometimes almost 100 yards) between them. It felt like such an incredible slog.

We were kinda bummed out because we had been looking forward to seeing our drives roll out for miles on some of the downhill holes, and it didn't really happen.

It was early February, so roughly a month after the tournament.

[Joel_Stewart]

Ive never heard Bill Coore insist on sand capping like Tom Fazio.


Seems to me that the greens and surrounds could use a heavy dose of sand capping as well as a new drainage system. Maybe they need to look at Sub Air?

[Tom_Doak]

Ive never heard Bill Coore insist on sand capping like Tom Fazio.


Seems to me that the greens and surrounds could use a heavy dose of sand capping as well as a new drainage system. Maybe they need to look at Sub Air?

 


Joel:  It's Bill Coore doing the work, not Gil Hanse.


First of all, sand capping the fairways at Kapalua would cost maybe $15 million.  Sand is not readily available on Hawaii; sand for greens and bunkers is shipped in from the Philippines or Vietnam.  I don't believe there is a sand-capped course in the islands . . . their substitute is crushed lava, but Kapalua isn't on lava, either.


I don't think "drainage" is so much the problem there, as thatch.  The problem with Bermudagrass is that if you don't aerify it very aggressively it gets thatchy after a few years, and then it's like a wet sponge . . . most of the fairways at Kapalua have more than 5% tilt, which would drain everything off very quickly if the thatch wasn't soaking it all up.  It's even worse in tropical climates where the grass is growing 12 months of the year, which is one big reason most tropical courses aren't that great.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Ive never heard Bill Coore insist on sand capping like Tom Fazio.


Seems to me that the greens and surrounds could use a heavy dose of sand capping as well as a new drainage system. Maybe they need to look at Sub Air?

 


Joel:  It's Bill Coore doing the work, not Gil Hanse.


First of all, sand capping the fairways at Kapalua would cost maybe $15 million.  Sand is not readily available on Hawaii; sand for greens and bunkers is shipped in from the Philippines or Vietnam.  I don't believe there is a sand-capped course in the islands . . . their substitute is crushed lava, but Kapalua isn't on lava, either.


I don't think "drainage" is so much the problem there, as thatch.  The problem with Bermudagrass is that if you don't aerify it very aggressively it gets thatchy after a few years, and then it's like a wet sponge . . . most of the fairways at Kapalua have more than 5% tilt, which would drain everything off very quickly if the thatch wasn't soaking it all up.  It's even worse in tropical climates where the grass is growing 12 months of the year, which is one big reason most tropical courses aren't that great.

Bingo. A Superintendent friend on mine was telling at one point 1. how difficult it is to get sand and 2. how incredibly expensive it is.


Essentially, their bermudagrass grows 12 months out of the year, there. More so than most of Florida. It's they are not cultivating it 12 months out of the year, they're falling behind. On a resort, this can be especially tough.

[Joel_Stewart]

Ive never heard Bill Coore insist on sand capping like Tom Fazio.


Seems to me that the greens and surrounds could use a heavy dose of sand capping as well as a new drainage system. Maybe they need to look at Sub Air?

 


Joel:  It's Bill Coore doing the work, not Gil Hanse.


I don't think "drainage" is so much the problem there, as thatch.  The problem with Bermudagrass is that if you don't aerify it very aggressively it gets thatchy after a few years, and then it's like a wet sponge . . . most of the fairways at Kapalua have more than 5% tilt, which would drain everything off very quickly if the thatch wasn't soaking it all up.  It's even worse in tropical climates where the grass is growing 12 months of the year, which is one big reason most tropical courses aren't that great.

Tom, I've reread this thread and never mentioned Gils name???


The course is being regressed with Celebration Bermuda. Not sure if that will help with the thatch. I thought they may consider Seashore Paspalum which is being used at Princeville and allowed them to lower both the water costs and pesticides use. It also plays fast.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Ive never heard Bill Coore insist on sand capping like Tom Fazio.


Seems to me that the greens and surrounds could use a heavy dose of sand capping as well as a new drainage system. Maybe they need to look at Sub Air?

 


Joel:  It's Bill Coore doing the work, not Gil Hanse.


I don't think "drainage" is so much the problem there, as thatch.  The problem with Bermudagrass is that if you don't aerify it very aggressively it gets thatchy after a few years, and then it's like a wet sponge . . . most of the fairways at Kapalua have more than 5% tilt, which would drain everything off very quickly if the thatch wasn't soaking it all up.  It's even worse in tropical climates where the grass is growing 12 months of the year, which is one big reason most tropical courses aren't that great.

 I thought they may consider Seashore Paspalum which is being used at Princeville and allowed them to lower both the water costs and pesticides use. It also plays fast.

Those are 2 things  I’ve never heard associated with paspalum-lower pesticide costs and plays firm. It most certainly needs more fungicides than bermudagrass and almost always plays sticky.

[B.Ross]

@Anthony Nysse - Not too far from you, over in west boca exists a 9 year old muni facility called osprey point with 27 holes, all paspalum as i understand it. (didn't mean to come off patronizing, i'm sure you're familiar with it). every time i've played it, it plays far firmer & faster than the typical bermuda found in the greater miami to palm beach area (except at the highest end private clubs). if seashore paspalum wasn't able to play so firm, how is it that osprey point is firmer / faster & better conditioned than the other daily fee facilities in the area as well as the 2nd/3rd tier private ones? am i making this too black & white? i ask because all of my paspalum experiences (there & in grand cayman) have been very firm & fast whereas south florida bermuda i associate with grainy greens & wet soft fairways.

[Anthony_Nysse]

@Anthony Nysse - Not too far from you, over in west boca exists a 9 year old muni facility called osprey point with 27 holes, all paspalum as i understand it. (didn't mean to come off patronizing, i'm sure you're familiar with it). every time i've played it, it plays far firmer & faster than the typical bermuda found in the greater miami to palm beach area (except at the highest end private clubs). if seashore paspalum wasn't able to play so firm, how is it that osprey point is firmer / faster & better conditioned than the other daily fee facilities in the area as well as the 2nd/3rd tier private ones? am i making this too black & white? i ask because all of my paspalum experiences (there & in grand cayman) have been very firm & fast whereas south florida bermuda i associate with grainy greens & wet soft fairways.

I don't like to make assumptions on some of my colleagues turf management abilities or lack of, but in this situation, your thoughts on paspalum could boil down to 1 thing-money. The drier the turf, the less fungicides the more wear & tear they can handle. Most courses with paspalum in south FL are at clubs that want to be green, pretty and eye appealing.
  Id also say that Osprey will be firmer, just because it's newer. Not many public courses getting over hauls in FL, thus you're left with old 419/common bermudagrass at courses that may not be spending $50k a year on fairway todressing or closing for cultural practices. #lostrevenue