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Jerry Kluger

  • Total Karma: 0
I played Royal Portrush a couple of years ago and saw the new holes but they weren't open for play yet.  To me, they looked very natural and fell right in with the character of the course.  I believe they will make the course even better and the course will certainly receive some great accolades when the Open Championship is played there this year.  Do you like the changes and feel they will make it even better architecturally or do you feel they should have left it alone?

Tom_Doak

  • Total Karma: 11
They secured The Open, and that will inevitably lead to the course being ranked higher in the future.

mike_beene

  • Total Karma: 0
I missed the part about new holes. How many and where do they fit in. Are they combining or skipping old holes. I did not research to see if there was a thread on this. I am sure there was.

Tom Hooker

  • Total Karma: 0
This was a nice overview of the changes (which were not limited to 7&8/17&18) before the work was done:


https://youtu.be/uOH5WfyBsOw


Having played it both right before and right after the change, I think it made perfect sense at least from a championship perspective. 7 plays into the prevailing wind, and the green complex was fantastic and measures up with the others. Along with 5 and what’s now 16, 7 & 8 will probably provide some of the best views on TV, too.


Of course it’ll go up in the rankings, but hosting the Open certainly won’t address the complaints about the width of the fairways...


Lukas Michel

  • Total Karma: 0

The new holes play over great land and I definitely think they're an improvement on the holes they replaced. Not a fan of the shaping of the 7th green however. The ripply/wavy edges and run-offs stuck out to me as particularly poor.



Mark_Fine

  • Total Karma: -2
I played Portrush this past summer.  I liked the new holes but didn't care for how they built the gaping fairway bunker on the par five.  Doesn't integrate well at all into the exiting sand dunes.  It is located well but aesthetically it looks more like a big pile of dirt with a large sand bunker cut out in the front of it  :(  I wouldn't call that one "natural"!

Brad Tufts

  • Total Karma: 0

I'm assuming they are trying to mimic the bunker on original #17 that they took out...the original looks like a huge bunker built into a huge 30-foot tall mound, but it's probably a natural dune.


I last played the Dunluce in Fall 2016 so we only saw the new holes from afar.  I plan to go back in summer 2020!
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Adam_Messix

  • Total Karma: 0
Mark--

The bunker on the new #7 is an homage to the deep bunker that was on the previous 17th.  It did not bother me as much as you and it is very much in play and should make the boys think if the hole plays into the prevailing head wind.   

The new holes are over really interesting ground and I like the angled tee shot on 8.   It will be interesting to see what clubs are used off the tee if the prevailing wind is blowing but I doubt they will hit driver. 

The new holes have also created an interesting finish.  16 is a potential disaster, 17 is a birdie hole, and 18 is a long difficult finisher.  My hope is that wind blows and provides a stern test.

The new holes have improved the course as they are on dynamic ground where the previous finishers are in the flatland by the clubhouse.  It will likely help with the rankings but given it's already high standing it will likely be a small move.

Steve_Lovett

  • Total Karma: 0
The old 17th and 18th were out and back along the least interesting land on the course. "Big Nellie", the massive bunker right of the 17th fairway was the most distinguishing feature, but otherwise these holes were more ordinary than the others.


The new holes work into the routing nicely and push the old 14th (Calamity) deeper into the round as the 16th, which I think makes the finish stronger and more interesting. (Incidentally, I played Calamity in five total strokes the two times I played it - so I don't know what the fuss about that hole is!  ;)

Niall C

  • Total Karma: -1
Is the routing with the new holes that is to be used for the Open to be retained thereafter ?

Niall

Tom_Doak

  • Total Karma: 11
Is the routing with the new holes that is to be used for the Open to be retained thereafter ?

Niall


Of course.  Everyone would want to play the Open course.


As I've said before, it's sad that to get The Open they had to sacrifice the quality of the Valley course.  The two new holes on the Dunluce stole the ground for the old 5th & 6th of the Valley, which were two of the best holes at Portrush, a short par-4 and a great long par-3.

Michael George

  • Total Karma: 0

As I've said before, it's sad that to get The Open they had to sacrifice the quality of the Valley course.  The two new holes on the Dunluce stole the ground for the old 5th & 6th of the Valley, which were two of the best holes at Portrush, a short par-4 and a great long par-3.

Tom - I think you nailed it here.  The 2 new holes are big improvements over the old 17 and 18.  They play over wonderful land and set up for a far better finish to the course.  This course is far better with these 2 holes.

However, it came directly at the cost (and in my opinion a large cost) to the Valley course.
"First come my wife and children.  Next comes my profession--the law. Finally, and never as a life in itself, comes golf" - Bob Jones

Ally Mcintosh

  • Total Karma: 1

As I've said before, it's sad that to get The Open they had to sacrifice the quality of the Valley course.  The two new holes on the Dunluce stole the ground for the old 5th & 6th of the Valley, which were two of the best holes at Portrush, a short par-4 and a great long par-3.

Tom - I think you nailed it here.  The 2 new holes are big improvements over the old 17 and 18.  They play over wonderful land and set up for a far better finish to the course.  This course is far better with these 2 holes.

However, it came directly at the cost (and in my opinion a large cost) to the Valley course.


I haven’t yet played the Valley since they added / changed 4 holes but I was up there during construction and whilst I’m normally one of the first to be wary of major changes to our classic links courses, this one seemed to make sense.


Do you think the Valley holes are a big reduction in quality? My main concern with the loss of the 5th and 6th was that I felt the routing may feel a little back and forth starting at the 4th... and those holes were good (and felt like the course was taken to another part of the property). But overall, I liked the look of the plan. Haven’t seen the execution.

Paul Jones

  • Total Karma: 4
Does anyone have pictures of the new holes?
Paul Jones
pauljones@live.com

Lou_Duran

  • Total Karma: 0
I thought the old 17th and 18th were good finishing holes on flat land that didn't mesh well with the other 16 holes.  The new holes fit the others much better and look like they have always been part of the course.  Both are strong and play very differently beyond one being a 4 and the other a 5.  For those who can't go at the green on 8 in two, the lay-up seemed particularly challenging, specially in the wind.  The course is improved.  I too hope that there is some wind, but not too much, and firm conditions for the Open.

Chad Anderson (Tennessee)

  • Total Karma: 0
I played Portrush a year and a half ago and it was magnificent.  The golf in Northern Ireland is amazing.  The front 9 at Portstewart may not be matched anywhere in the world.


Portrush was probably my 2nd favorite on the trip.  I would put Turnberry just ahead of it.  I look forward to watching The Open this year!!
Chad Anderson
Executive Director
Tennessee Golf Association
@tngolf

Niall C

  • Total Karma: -1
Tom

The reason I asked the question is that not having been there I was under the impression that the new holes and the new routing to be used for the Open, didn’t finish at the clubhouse and therefore I think I had assumed the Open routing was only for that event. A bit like the composite course at Royal Melbourne. Presumably that’s not the case.

Niall

Michael Whitaker

  • Total Karma: 0
Jerry and I played Royal Portrush with two members who said that the membership were trying to have the course returned to the "old" 17th and 18th holes for regular play. They greatly enjoy the course finishing under the back porch of the clubhouse and do not want to lose that opportunity to view/razz players as they finish club events.

By the way, we played with one of Portrush's most famous members, Bill Tennant, who is a legend for having scored a "2" on EVERY one of the original 18 holes!!!  :o  But... surprisingly, Bill had never made a hole-in-one! In December 2016 Bill finally made his first hole-in-one. Here is a report on that shot from his best friend, Ken Green:  http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,63897.msg1521261.html#msg1521261

Sadly, Bill passed away this past year. I think his lifetime eclectic score of 35 will probably live forever!
« Last Edit: January 05, 2019, 11:32:48 PM by Michael Whitaker »
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Tim Gallant

  • Total Karma: 1

The new holes play over great land and I definitely think they're an improvement on the holes they replaced. Not a fan of the shaping of the 7th green however. The ripply/wavy edges and run-offs stuck out to me as particularly poor.





Lukas,


Absolutely spot on and you beat me to the punch. I know I raised this in a thread created on the ribbon effect, but honestly, how long do you think great golf courses will allow this type of mailed in green design before someone says something? It appears to be quite unoriginal, unsympathetic to the surrounding landforms, and very uninspiring.

Conor Rankin

  • Total Karma: 0
The club will have to decide on what to do with the ground of the old 17th and 18th. They have the option to be restored but the close proximity of the road and car park to the old 18th I doubt the club will. The Ebert additions are good move for safety as well as improving the character of the 18 as a whole. The previous finishers weren't in character with the rest of the course.


The original 18 holes started in the town and the old 17th and 18th were just connector holes to get from the town to the coastal links land. The holes were improved with the Colt redesign but the course has been generally moving from the town to the coast over the last 100 years with multiple redesigns. The 8th and 9th (old 7th and 8th) were laid out by the club professional at the time PG Stevenson. I think the two new holes have been welcome additions - even if the Valley has lost two very interesting holes

Tommy Williamsen

  • Total Karma: 3
Has anyone played the Valley course recently? I was under the impression that the Valley course also had some good holes added. I loved the Valley course before the changes and hope to get there next year, 2020.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Jerry Kluger

  • Total Karma: 0
The 17th and 18th were generally not viewed as the best part of the course and were they possibly a reason why the course was not viewed as competing to be the best in Northern Ireland?  Will the new holes bring it up to the point where it is the equal of RCD? The general feeling on GCA has been that the front nine on RCD is perhaps the best nine in the world while the back nine is good but not that good - correct?

Conor Rankin

  • Total Karma: 0
The 17th on the valley is now a re-discovered par 3 from an earlier design which had been lost. It has a wonderful punchbowl green with a sharp fall off at the front of the green

Jaeger Kovich

  • Total Karma: 0

The new holes play over great land and I definitely think they're an improvement on the holes they replaced. Not a fan of the shaping of the 7th green however. The ripply/wavy edges and run-offs stuck out to me as particularly poor.





Lukas,


Absolutely spot on and you beat me to the punch. I know I raised this in a thread created on the ribbon effect, but honestly, how long do you think great golf courses will allow this type of mailed in green design before someone says something? It appears to be quite unoriginal, unsympathetic to the surrounding landforms, and very uninspiring.


I've never been to Ireland, but you guys just described the changes at Turnberry as well... great choice of works in your last sentence Tim.

Jamie Pyper

  • Total Karma: 0
I'll pop in with some responses as a member who has played both the Dunluce and Valley numerous times this past year.
I believe the new holes, along with many other changes, will give the course much greater stature in the world of gca.
It won't hurt the stature as well that it will be first EVER sold out Open and the entire island is in a frenzy to see the Championship back at Portrush.


Mark: The bunker you mention on the new par 5 7th was to replace "Big Nellie" ( unceremoniously named after a kitchen staffer from another generation). In reality, the new bunker is nothing like the original and does seem out of sorts in a much smaller contrived hillock. To many this hole is more sizzle than substance, with the big hitters playing two shots straight down the middle. The attractive serpentine look of the fairway will not affect the pros much and I predict that after the Open this landing area may get another look. Many think it should be pushed farther left and by adding a bunker or two on the right centre it will make the big hitter think about carrying the hazards, an option they doesn't have to worry about now.

Adam; In regard to your interesting finish- the dramatic par 3 Calamity, the reachable Par 4 17 th and the tough 18th will indeed make a great finish. There has been much talk that the R & A should have considered playing the first 13 holes in original sequence, then move to the two new holes and finish as you mention. The new Par 4 followed by the new Par 5 before Calamity would make a great finish to consider.

Ally and Tom;  The more I play the revised Valley the more I like it. Two very good holes were lost but the sum of the changes make a viable comparison, and now the Valley has the best view for either course from the new 18th tee.

Michael and Conor: As of two months ago there is zero change that the old 17 and 18th holes will ever be played again.
The bunkers have been filled and flattened, most of the gorse between the fairways has been removed, all in preparation for the tented village. After the Open the club will explore their options on this land. Some ideas include retaining the 18th green as the putting green, relocating and expanding the parking lot, creating three or four pitch and putt par 3 holes, creating a new large Himalayas putting course similar to the one at St. Andrews or what Tom D. built at Bandon. This would be located close to the Ladies clubhouse and the town. A small fee would be charged and it would be open to the public. Some of the younger members have thrown out the idea of a new clubhouse situated behind the new 18th green and /or a new pro shop structure, but all this is just talk at this time.

Lukas and Tim; Your point is well taken on the shaping of the two new greens. some of the contours and run-offs are out of character. A local told me about the day last spring when he witnessed four R&A officials standing at the front left of the new # 8 green all throwing balls up the slope at different angles and all watching the balls stop within a four foot catchment area. After quite some time duplicating the same result, they concurred that that sloped runoff was problematic. DUH! 

The grounds crew are working round the clock on many improvements which will continue after the Open is over. Just last month they completed opening a new 4 metre length of the existing natural stream ( now underground) in front of the par 5 12th green. This new section of stream will catch short right side approaches and may lead to bringing more of the stream into play in the future.


All the changes should make for an exciting Open, however, the best case scenario would be to have it played under classic Portrush conditions, a brisk North Atlantic breeze and firm, hard turf.


Happy New Year to All!