[Anthony Butler]

Had the pleasure of playing with the GM David Burton a couple Sundays ago when ‘Windy Wales’ was really showing its teeth. e.g. A well struck 7 iron on the swap-in hole behind the 16th Green barely made the putting surface on a 95m hole

As we exited the 5th green, I took this photo of the new 6th Green - due to go into play as soon as the authorities finish the walking path to the right of the green. I don’t have a shot of the old green from a comparative angle, but my first impressions:

1) A more level green with less right to left tilt. This should make recovery shots slightly easier from the right.

2) Only one bunker on the right remains versus two before the green rebuild. Mounding around the bunker that will act as a gathering device for that bunker.

3) Shot values remain essentially unchanged.The prevailing north-easterly breeze will demand a piercing long iron shot. Although something that hits the left side of the green has a better chance of remaining on the putting surface. That said, a miss on the left, assuming you’re not down the cliff, still presents a better chance to make your par.

4) The protection for those using the walking path is a lot greater than you would expect. According to David Burton the NSW Parks and Wildlife website will be promoting this coastal walk more heavily on their website and other channels, so they anticipate several hundred walkers a day versus the several dozen they typically get. That will increase the chances of someone without enough sense to realize they are on a golf course and take the proper precautions, hence the subterranean path about 20 yards right of the green that will be their only option for moving from being the 5th green to behind the 7th.


Hopefully Tom Doak will chime in with some additional observations on his work here.

[Anthony Butler]

Crazy how much earth moving is required top protect walkers from golfers... the green feels more 'benched in' to the hillside as a result.

[Anthony Butler]

Here's some drone footage of the old green for comparison's sake.


https://vimeo.com/142587846

[Jeff Schley]

Anthony wonderful photos and I'll be there in early February to hopefully avoid a doublecross into the drink.
It looks like there is more bailout right, but with the green sloping to the water, it looks like the miss is short or short left. It looks like in the new design the green is more substantial.  What was the impetus for the changes?

[Anthony Butler]

Anthony wonderful photos and I'll be there in early February to hopefully avoid a doublecross into the drink.
It looks like there is more bailout right, but with the green sloping to the water, it looks like the miss is short or short left. It looks like in the new design the green is more substantial.  What was the impetus for the changes?

Hi Jeff,


There was always plenty of room to the right of the green, although par is extremely problematic from that side... from many spots just keeping your second shot on the green was a challenge.


The green needed to be redesigned because our landlords for that parcel of land (NSW National Parks and Wildlife) wanted to establish a more formal walking path in that part of the course. That necessitated a rebuilding of the green to accommodate this construction project. The green has apparently moved 10-12ft although its hard to tell. The green appears to be slight less kidney shaped, so the left edge is closer to the cliff by about that amount.. The left bunker appears to be little to the left and higher up the green although that might be a result of the larger green pad on the front left.

[Tom_Doak]

Anthony:


The original design submitted to the council [by the club's previous design consultant] had showed the green moved further left and lower toward the cliff edge.  We walked that back as much as we could, because the more the green went into the triangle in the corner, the more impossible the hole would be in a tailwind . . . you would have had to carry the ball onto the green because of the cliff edge, and then somehow get it to stop before it ran up into the hillside behind the green.


So, you are correct, the green is only moved about 15 feet to the left of its old location, and it's about two feet lower than before.  I don't think many people would have noticed the change if the work for the path itself wasn't so extensive, but the berming up of the path makes it look like we lowered the green more than we did.  The green is indeed slightly larger; it is very exposed to the wind and salt water, so it isn't the easiest one to keep in good condition.


Recoveries from the right front of the green might be slightly easier than before, as we took one of the greenside bunkers away there, and if you play both short and right, you might be able to hit a reasonable chip shot onto the green.  Pin high and right is still very difficult.  Short left, as Jeff suggested, is no good . . . there is not a lot of room there and it's quite steep, so your ball will be in danger of going back down to the cliff edge.  The left bunker is not a bad place to miss, but it's a hard place to get to:  there is not as much room on that side as there used to be!  [It had to be moved up the green, as you say, because with the green moving closer to the cliff there wasn't room for it at the front.]


All the credit should really go to Brian Schneider who did the work in October/November while we were working at The National.

[Anthony Butler]

The original design submitted to the council [by the club's previous design consultant] had showed the green moved further left and lower toward the cliff edge.  We walked that back as much as we could, because the more the green went into the triangle in the corner, the more impossible the hole would be in a tailwind . . . you would have had to carry the ball onto the green because of the cliff edge, and then somehow get it to stop before it ran up into the hillside behind the green.

The death or glory school of design... speaking of school, an old classmate of mine got eased out as the Chair of the Greens committee due to the fact he put Norman's ideas up for club vote without pushing back at all. I'm still amazed this particular idea made it to the council.

Pin high and right is still very difficult.  Short left, as Jeff suggested, is no good . . . there is not a lot of room there and it's quite steep, so your ball will be in danger of going back down to the cliff edge.

This will likely come down to a maintenance decision... keep the bank at fairway height and most balls will go back towards the cliff versus the prior policy of keeping that grass long enough to hold a shot.. and providing a cushion under the ball for your recovery shot. I hope they choose the second option, otherwise you'll hear the complaining all the way up in Traverse City.

All the credit should really go to Brian Schneider who did the work in October/November while we were working at The National.

They love Brian at the Club. If your name is Brian in Australia, it's assumed you're a good bloke unless proven otherwise.


BTW... I stopped by the National the previous weekend while down in the Mornington... they are very excited about the prospect of the Ocean Course opening back up in Feb, along with the possibility of joining Royal Melbourne as the only other club with two courses in the Australian Top 25. I hope one of our Melbourne-based correspondents will arrange a game there in late summer and file a report - with pictures.

[corey miller]

I Played the course years ago and consider it one of the great spots to play in the world.

My two questions which are both somewhat process related:

Were the walkers really that much in play from both sets of tees? 

And

Did Brian do the work for the grading of the path? And if not was that ever an option even if the pathway itself was chosen by a non-architect?

[Anthony Butler]

I Played the course years ago and consider it one of the great spots to play in the world.

My two questions which are both somewhat process related:

Were the walkers really that much in play from both sets of tees? 

And

Did Brian do the work for the grading of the path? And if not was that ever an option even if the pathway itself was chosen by a non-architect?

Hi Corey,

I never experienced much in the way of walking traffic while playing the 6th... the most action you are likely to see from non-golfers in this area of the course is on the 3/4 days a year when surfable waves break in the cove below the green and a dozen people will stroll down the hill from the Helicopter Rescue Service car park near the 5th tee with a surfboard under their armwit

As mentioned in my original post, our GM has been informed the Council and the National Park Service intend to promote the 'Coastal Walk' and therefore anticipate a larger volume of foot traffic through the 5th/6th/7th holes. I'm not sure exactly how you continue to make it all the way to Cape Banks as there is some fairly challenging terrain behind the 13th and 14th holes to negotiate. Therefore I don't see the crowds of walkers they are expecting. Most people visiting that area seem happy to drive to the observation area about 600m beyond the club entrance on Anzac Parade and take a look at the view... On Sunday they used to have a guy doing a show with poisonous snakes that also draws quite a crowd. (I've never seen anyone so casually handle an animal that could stop your heart in about 10 mins.)

The construction of the walkway is still ongoing as you can see from photos.. I don't think Tom's company gets to design paths on behalf of the government, but I'm sure there was some co-ordination between the two construction teams. He would have to tell you more on that topic.

[Tom_Doak]

I Played the course years ago and consider it one of the great spots to play in the world.

My two questions which are both somewhat process related:

Were the walkers really that much in play from both sets of tees? 

And

Did Brian do the work for the grading of the path? And if not was that ever an option even if the pathway itself was chosen by a non-architect?

The walkers are coming down a path on the right side of a hole, with the ocean to the left, and a lot of wind in play.  You can say they are outside the generally accepted cone of safety, but even so, it's inevitable there will be some balls headed toward the path every year.  And since it's a new thing, one can't assume that the walkers all understand the situation.  So the council wanted the path as safely away from play as possible.


The path work had already been awarded to a local contractor by the time we got involved.  It was not easy to coordinate with them as their solutions for the drainage coming across the path were quite complicated, and they weren't working as fast as we were.  So Brian had to make extra visits to be sure the two sides of the fence came together okay.  It's a good thing we had other work in Australia at the time!

[Scott Warren]

Here's a pic from behind the green last week:





One of the great improvements is the fact that the new green welcomes a running approach. Being a 170-190m shot in a windy location, a lot of the time that's what you want to be hitting and the old green totally prevented it.


I will be interested to see how landscaping of the faux-dune right of the approach and green works to make it look a bit more natural, because as it stands, it's pretty jarring. The new practice facility and storage building also looked jarring in the extreme during construction but are less so on completion, and I expect even more pleasant once the landscaping grows in, so hopefully six will follow suit.


Looking forward to playing it in coming months.

[Jeff Schley]

Here's a pic from behind the green last week:





One of the great improvements is the fact that the new green welcomes a running approach. Being a 170-190m shot in a windy location, a lot of the time that's what you want to be hitting and the old green totally prevented it.


I will be interested to see how landscaping of the faux-dune right of the approach and green works to make it look a bit more natural, because as it stands, it's pretty jarring. The new practice facility and storage building also looked jarring in the extreme during construction but are less so on completion, and I expect even more pleasant once the landscaping grows in, so hopefully six will follow suit.


Looking forward to playing it in coming months.

Great photo and from there I can certainly see how Tom said short left is dead due to the slope, which you can't really detect from the tee nearly as well. Wonderful piece of property.

[Mark_F]

Here's some drone footage of the old green for comparison's sake.
https://vimeo.com/142587846

One would hope it's the image itself, or an incomplete bunker - or both - but that bunker on the right side of the green is hideous compared to the old one.   A circular pot sitting in a mound above the green?  If Mike Wolveridge had built that, they would get Tom Doak in to fix it.

What do they do now?

BTW... I stopped by the National the previous weekend while down in the Mornington... they are very excited about the prospect of the Ocean Course opening back up in Feb, along with the possibility of joining Royal Melbourne as the only other club with two courses in the Australian Top 25.

Dear oh dear, The National and their inferiority complex are alive and well, it would seem.

PS.  Peninsula already has them beaten on that score anyway.

[Scott Warren]

The National already had their Old (17th) and Moonah (11th) courses inside the Top 25 of the last Golf Australia Magazine ranking (Jan 2018).

[Mark_F]

The National already had their Old (17th) and Moonah (11th) courses inside the Top 25 of the last Golf Australia Magazine ranking (Jan 2018).

“A roller-coaster of thrills and spills with lots of fairway movement and a set of outrageous greens, the Old Course is wide and not long, yet it has a wildness that intimidates like few others. Once you get your head around all that is happening around you, it guarantees some of the best fun you can have with a golf club in your hand.” – Brian Walshe. [/font]“Set in the massive dunes of the Cups country, National Moonah combines plenty of fairway movement with some of the best green complexes built in the last 50 years.  The first four holes are as good a start as you’ll find in this country and day in day out it is presented in perfect condition. In a state where the one grass policy has become the norm, National Moonah and 13th Beach demonstrate how much better two grasses are.” – Brian Walshe.


Golf Australia really should forbid all of those National and ex-National members from the rating panel if it wants any sort of credibility.

 

[Anthony Butler]

BTW... I stopped by the National the previous weekend while down in the Mornington... they are very excited about the prospect of the Ocean Course opening back up in Feb, along with the possibility of joining Royal Melbourne as the only other club with two courses in the Australian Top 25.

Dear oh dear, The National and their inferiority complex are alive and well, it would seem.

PS.  Peninsula already has them beaten on that score anyway.

OK, so according to Scott Warren they will have likely have three courses in the Top 25...

I guess Peninsula will have some catching up to do... they've got plenty of new money so that shouldn't be a problem.

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