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Peter Pallotta

Re: Tom Doak to renovate Houston's Memorial Park
« Reply #75 on: November 05, 2019, 04:10:42 PM »
Tom -
when I first read about the work at this course, I thought that those 'compromises' would be one of its strengths, and that the need to compromise was going to bring out the best in you & your team.
It wasn't a mere possibility that the course would have to meaningfully serve two masters; it was built into the brief, especially since you weren't starting with a blank slate.
I know some of your other courses have hosted top golfers in tournament settings, but this course intrigues me most, e.g. more than Pacific with the Curtis Cup or Renaissance with the European Tour.  I'd bet that students of architecture (I mean, real students, i.e. would-be architects, not amateur dilettantes like me) could learn a great deal about real-world course design from analyzing what your team has done there, precisely because of the compromises.   
As I get older, I find my once instinctive recoiling from the very notion of compromise disappearing -- in part because the process of compromise demands that we grapple with difficult decisions more seriously (than we do when we have a so-called 'free hand', which is never really free in any event), and that we make many of our typical and/or unconscious choices more consciously. 
Hey, now there's a book title you're likely not using any time soon:
"Compromise: What I Learned about GCA from the PGA Tour"  :)


« Last Edit: November 05, 2019, 04:27:56 PM by Peter Pallotta »

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak to renovate Houston's Memorial Park
« Reply #76 on: November 05, 2019, 05:17:36 PM »
19 bunkers.
The fairway bunker on #3 isn't shown.
Cheers
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak to renovate Houston's Memorial Park
« Reply #77 on: November 05, 2019, 10:55:00 PM »
look forward to playing it soon, fantastic golf in the middle of Houston :)
if TD were a golfer he wouldn't have needed Dye's advice
hard to say that an average golfer is better out of the rough, as bermuda rough just sucks the big one at any length, at Sawgrass, the fairway is where you want to be
hope for some Langfordesque build outs on a flat site, nothing like hearing TD complain about a site in person or on a podcast
the last several holes are more where TD is bringing out his Dyeabolical ideas that are less subtle
nice to see everyone still learning
cheers
« Last Edit: November 06, 2019, 08:29:37 AM by William_G »
It's all about the golf!

Ben Stephens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak to renovate Houston's Memorial Park
« Reply #78 on: November 06, 2019, 03:04:07 AM »
The fairway width is my idea - or really an idea from Mr Dye being recycled.


We felt if we built wide fairways the Tour would want to narrow them way down for the event, and it would be a giant PITA for the greenkeeper to try and make that transition back and forth every year.  You can change the height of rough pretty quickly, but getting it all the way down to fairway and back is another story, especially right when the growing season for bermuda grass is coming to an end.


Also - the fairways are sand capped, but we had to stop before we got to the trees, so it made sense to make the sand cap and the fairways about the same width, which here is typically 30-35 yards.


Thus, the idea from Mr Dye - that average golfers are better out of one-inch rough than out of the fairway.  (He asked me why I had the 10th fairway at Riverdale Dunes flagged so wide; I told him I was trying to emulate the 10th at Riviera - I was ahead of my time in 1984 - and he said fine, but the average guy was better from rough, so the fairway could be much narrower to the left!)


So, we will have a wide belt of short rough on either side of the fairway.  They will let that start to grow taller 4-6 weeks before the tournament (when the bermuda is thriving), and then cut it back the week after the event, so the 60,000 golfers can get around again.


It's a bit of a compromise - many elements of this course are, as the daily usage makes many of the things impractical that I might otherwise have done to challenge the pros.


Tom


Interesting story and it makes clear sense why the fairways are narrow on a Dye course and the rough is more forgiving than most courses - this is also the case at Harbour Town.


Hope the event goes well next year, the course is able to challenge the tour pros and it gets good TV coverage.


Cheers
Ben

Ben Stephens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak to renovate Houston's Memorial Park
« Reply #79 on: November 06, 2019, 03:04:35 AM »
19 bunkers.
The fairway bunker on #3 isn't shown.
Cheers


 ::) ::) ::) ::)

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Tom Doak to renovate Houston's Memorial Park
« Reply #80 on: November 06, 2019, 08:04:13 AM »
https://twitter.com/renaissancegol2/status/1191421585967763457/photo/1


Click on link which shows new layout


I learn something new every day.


Today, I learned that my company has a Twitter account, not authorized by me.  How'd that happen?

Dan_Callahan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak to renovate Houston's Memorial Park
« Reply #81 on: November 06, 2019, 08:39:58 AM »
The Twitter pics of St. Patrick's are incredible.

Ben Stephens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak to renovate Houston's Memorial Park
« Reply #82 on: November 06, 2019, 09:23:17 AM »
https://twitter.com/renaissancegol2/status/1191421585967763457/photo/1


Click on link which shows new layout


I learn something new every day.


Today, I learned that my company has a Twitter account, not authorized by me.  How'd that happen?


Uh-hoh  ::) ::)


There are a lot of followers (over 2,200) and this account was set up in February 2019.


Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak to renovate Houston's Memorial Park
« Reply #83 on: November 06, 2019, 11:07:09 AM »
https://twitter.com/renaissancegol2/status/1191421585967763457/photo/1


Click on link which shows new layout

I learn something new every day.

Today, I learned that my company has a Twitter account, not authorized by me.  How'd that happen?

Uh-hoh  ::) ::)

There are a lot of followers (over 2,200) and this account was set up in February 2019.


Could be a case of the forgets.  ;D

  My boss doesn't recall half the stuff we discuss a few weeks later, it can be frustrating..

Daryl David

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak to renovate Houston's Memorial Park
« Reply #84 on: November 06, 2019, 12:01:33 PM »
Must be generated by a Russian bot.  Attempting to influence the balloting process for course ratings.  ;D

Peter Pallotta

Re: Tom Doak to renovate Houston's Memorial Park
« Reply #85 on: November 06, 2019, 02:01:38 PM »
Must be generated by a Russian bot.  Attempting to influence the balloting process for course ratings.  ;D
When he announces that his next course will be called 'Tom's Best' and feature 18 of his favourite holes from among the hundreds he's built, replicated from scratch all in one place to create his final & greatest masterpiece, I'll be inclined to think that his twitter account has been hacked.

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak to renovate Houston's Memorial Park
« Reply #86 on: November 06, 2019, 08:12:18 PM »
always good to be learning even about your own company, LOL
It's all about the golf!

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak to renovate Houston's Memorial Park
« Reply #87 on: November 07, 2019, 01:58:07 AM »
The Twitter pics of St. Patrick's are incredible.


These were the ones that interested and surprised me also, knowing that Tom usually keeps these construction photos pretty well hidden.


Account now gone.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak to renovate Houston's Memorial Park
« Reply #88 on: November 07, 2019, 03:57:53 AM »
So, we will have a wide belt of short rough on either side of the fairway.  They will let that start to grow taller 4-6 weeks before the tournament (when the bermuda is thriving), and then cut it back the week after the event, so the 60,000 golfers can get around again.


This idea seems to have considerable merit. One that other courses, and not only courses played occasionally in elite events, could perhaps adopt.
I’ll be interested in hearing more in due course as to the ideas, mentioned in a post above, for making the pros default position of playing for the middle of the green more challenging.
Atb

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Tom Doak to renovate Houston's Memorial Park
« Reply #89 on: November 07, 2019, 04:25:27 AM »

Could be a case of the forgets.  ;D

  My boss doesn't recall half the stuff we discuss a few weeks later, it can be frustrating..


Indeed.  As in, my vp of strategy forgot to ask me directly if I was okay with it.


Twitter is for people like our President and Matty G.  I'm not a fan of the medium and have never used it.  And since everyone would assume that account was run by me personally, but it never was, it's been deleted.

Ben Stephens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak to renovate Houston's Memorial Park
« Reply #90 on: November 07, 2019, 04:29:28 AM »
The Twitter pics of St. Patrick's are incredible.


These were the ones that interested and surprised me also, knowing that Tom usually keeps these construction photos pretty well hidden.


Account now gone.


That was quick ;D

Ben Stephens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak to renovate Houston's Memorial Park
« Reply #91 on: November 07, 2019, 04:30:47 AM »

Could be a case of the forgets.  ;D

  My boss doesn't recall half the stuff we discuss a few weeks later, it can be frustrating..


Indeed.  As in, my vp of strategy forgot to ask me directly if I was okay with it.


Twitter is for people like our President and Matty G.  I'm not a fan of the medium and have never used it.  And since everyone would assume that account was run by me personally, but it never was, it's been deleted.


Tom,


is @doakgolf on instagram your account? just for clarification

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Tom Doak to renovate Houston's Memorial Park
« Reply #92 on: November 07, 2019, 04:33:09 AM »
So, we will have a wide belt of short rough on either side of the fairway.  They will let that start to grow taller 4-6 weeks before the tournament (when the bermuda is thriving), and then cut it back the week after the event, so the 60,000 golfers can get around again.


This idea seems to have considerable merit. One that other courses, and not only courses played occasionally in elite events, could perhaps adopt.
I’ll be interested in hearing more in due course as to the ideas, mentioned in a post above, for making the pros default position of playing for the middle of the green more challenging.
Atb


Thomas:


This is hardly a radical new idea.  In my memory, when the Tour came to town, rough was left unmowed and greens were sped up to make the course more challenging.


But now courses maintain tournament conditions every day, and there's no room to turn up the volume without it getting silly.  Worse yet, trying to maintain those conditions in the wrong weather is deleterious to the long term health of the grass.


At TPC courses they pride themselves on this because they think all visitors want the Tour experience.  Seems crazy to me, but lots of golfers are masochists, or at least that's what the Tour thinks.



Jeff Spittel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak to renovate Houston's Memorial Park
« Reply #93 on: November 07, 2019, 08:48:02 AM »
Taking it for a test drive on Sunday. Will snap some pics for everyone to enjoy.
Fare and be well now, let your life proceed by its own design.

Buck Wolter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak to renovate Houston's Memorial Park
« Reply #94 on: November 07, 2019, 02:01:26 PM »
Deleted
« Last Edit: November 07, 2019, 02:21:28 PM by Buck Wolter »
Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience -- CS Lewis

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak to renovate Houston's Memorial Park
« Reply #95 on: October 29, 2021, 12:32:30 PM »
With the onslaught of completely uninteresting golf events on the current slate, I do plan on watching the upcoming event at Memorial Park.

Tom I'm curious if you've made any tweaks to the course since last year's initial playing and/or if there are any other requests in the hopper?

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Tom Doak to renovate Houston's Memorial Park
« Reply #96 on: October 29, 2021, 04:09:19 PM »

Tom I'm curious if you've made any tweaks to the course since last year's initial playing and/or if there are any other requests in the hopper?


We added a couple of tees BEFORE the event last year, but the only change after the event was to the bunkers on the left of #9 green, which provided some really awkward trouble to a few players last year.  As a result, the course has one or two fewer bunkers this year!


I am hopeful that I managed to make the case for moving up the tees on 17 one day so players can have a crack at the green, which they didn’t try last year - won’t know for sure until I get there.  I will be in town all week.


I think it’s a testament to how well the event went last year, that they are letting us play the Renaissance Cup the Monday and Tuesday following the Houston Open.  Can’t wait to see what my friends think of a PGA Tour setup  :D

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak to renovate Houston's Memorial Park
« Reply #97 on: October 30, 2021, 11:03:40 PM »
I don't remember the rough being much of a factor last year, and it may not be for them this year, but likely for some of the Renaissance Cup players.
It was rough for me last week.
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Tom Doak to renovate Houston's Memorial Park
« Reply #98 on: October 31, 2021, 12:03:51 AM »
Mike:


I thought the rough wax perfect last year.  They didn’t have to chip out, but they had to play defensively from the rough because they couldn’t hold the greens out of it.

JMEvensky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak to renovate Houston's Memorial Park
« Reply #99 on: October 31, 2021, 05:54:13 AM »
Mike:


I thought the rough wax perfect last year.  They didn’t have to chip out, but they had to play defensively from the rough because they couldn’t hold the greens out of it.




How can you expect anyone to hold a green playing out of waxed rough?  ;D