Rory's critical comments on the set up of European courses.

[Tony_Muldoon]

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/frustration-with-european-tour-setups-has-rory-mcilroy-eyeing-a-pga-tour-centric-schedule-again-in-2020


It seems as if he's coming down firmly on the side of Penal set ups. Is this similar to Hogan believing to much weight was given to putting? i.e. a great ball strikers complaint? Or is it a reflection of the skills that the ultra lucrative US tour rewards?  It's clear where he'd rather be playing and from the outset he's said that's the way he wants to play.


He ignores that
a The Renaissance Course was WET and balls just off line stopped dead instead of rolling away.
b The set up at St Andrews was deliberate to accommodate Amateurs playing with him AND it was far from firm with balls consistently sucking back on greens.


Either way it seems like another nail in the coffin of traditional golf architecture. If the top Pro's don't value these courses, the top amateurs and others will follow with their estimations (In contrast Tiger has always named TOC as the most interesting course they play.)




Love it when he's on form, but I wish he'd speak less and hit fewer balls when it matters i.e. at the majors.

[Eric LeFante]

I wouldn't go as far as saying he wants penal setups. I think everyone loves risk/reward and strategic design. But there's not much
risk when the greens are soft, the rough isn't too high, and you have a short club in your hand whether you hit the fairway or not.


I don't believe you can have a course that an amateur can get around within a few strokes of his handicap and that can truly test a professional. Width is fantastic for amateurs but too much width (40+ yards) gives no advantage to the pro who actually hits it straight. Angles rarely matter on tour anymore (with 10 at Riviera the exception). If the greens aren't firm and a pro has a wedge in his hand (they can hit wedge 150+) there isn't much of a reward for a guy who is very accurate off the tee.


Modern technology has made the architects intent for a hole (risk/reward, proper angles, variety of clubs for approach shots) completely irrelevant at the tour level.

[Jason Topp]

Love it when he's on form, but I wish he'd speak less and hit fewer balls when it matters i.e. at the majors.

I couldn't disagree with this sentiment more Tony.  I do not agree with everything Rory says but he is one of the professionals who say something interesting in interviews. 


I am not sure what to make of his quote.  If they designated the par 5's as par 4's the winning score would have been 11 under with all of the players hitting the exact same shots. Would he have been upset that the course was too easy in that case?   What skills are not being tested that he thinks need to be tested in the game? 

[JLahrman]

Love it when he's on form, but I wish he'd speak less and hit fewer balls when it matters i.e. at the majors.

I couldn't disagree with this sentiment more Tony.  I do not agree with everything Rory says but he is one of the professionals who say something interesting in interviews. 

I agree Jason...we want these guys to say more interesting things in interviews and press conferences, but then we jump on them for making even relatively benign comments. Such as when McIlroy accurately said that Woods and Mickelson were on the back nine of their careers a few years ago. A relatively obvious observation, but there were endless articles about how he had insulted them. These guys just can't win. The pros seem robotic and dull when interviewed, but I can't blame them for giving vanilla comments to every question.

[Niall C]

Rory is perfectly pleasant in interviews but can't say I find him all that interesting. His comments here just smack of him wanting set up's to suit his game and to protect his weakness (average putter, relatively speaking). Given he's just been given a free pass by the Euro Tour re his schedule this is him also trying to defend that situation IMO. I'm not sure the Tour will have appreciated his efforts in trying to do that.


Niall

[Kalen Braley]

Sounds like Rory would certainly be an advocate of a rollback then!!  Restore 450 yard par 4s to Driver/long iron instead of bomb and wedge gouge-fest!

[Tommy Williamsen]

Every week someone goes low. I watched the Korn Ferry finals at Victoria National. The announcers kept saying that this is the toughest course they play all year. -23 won. Unless you out the pins on slopes someone will go low.
That said, I used to be a member at Sedgefield. They give the pros easier pin placements than regular play gets sometimes.

[Peter Pallotta]

A side-bar article to the one Tony links shows that the average winning score for PGA Tour events was actually lower (i.e. more under par) than the average score at European Tour events.
But that stat might be as irrelevant as Rory's cherry-picking of just a few high profile European events and then (implicitly & unfairly) contrasting them to high profile events/majors in the U.S.
All of which is to say: I think Rory -- who one can't help but like, as a wonderful player and very decent lad -- is annoyed about something, but I'm not sure about what.
Maybe his complaint is a young top golfer's equivalent to an old great golfer like Jack N advocating for a roll-back, i.e. his way of saying that technology (and course set ups/designs) are artificially narrowing the gap between the very best players and all the rest of the tour pros -- with Rory, naturally, identifying himself with the former.

[Jeff Johnston]

I am a Rory fan and agree with those positing above that his interviews are more genuine / interesting than most - on this occasion however he would surely have been better advised to button it a bit. Where is the upside?

In all seriousness I think not winning the pro/am with his dad (just before Gerry's 60th as well) was what really had him narked.

[Terry Lavin]

Give him some cheese with that whine.

[Peter Pallotta]

Give him some cheese with that whine.

   You’re getting increasingly grouchy as you take on the mantel of judicial elder statesman. Waspish you can never be, but snappish surely. Is there a legal term/jargon for that? Is that what they used to call a ‘hangin’ judge’?

[Kalen Braley]

I think this just gives him an escape clause for the blow back he'll get from the Euro fans when he chooses to play full time on the PGA Tour next year, (which he was probably gonna do either way), and only bothers to come back for the The Irish and The Open.

[Chris Mavros]

Hogan was famous for complaining of set ups being too easy so they would make them more difficult, which would help no one but him.


Rory quipped earlier this season that he hoped the USGA "got it right" at Pebble, apparently jabbing at set ups in the past he wasn't happy with since a wet Congressional. 


Now he's complaining a pro am event was too easy.  After seeing him at Portrush and a few other venues this season, I wonder what the sweet spot is for him where he won't complain?  Maybe 18 short par 4's?   


Yeah he's candid but perhaps a bit too self serving. 


I actually like Rory a lot and find his candor with the media similar to Sam Snead; a human element all of us can relate to.

[Terry Lavin]

Give him some cheese with that whine.

   You’re getting increasingly grouchy as you take on the mantel of judicial elder statesman. Waspish you can never be, but snappish surely. Is there a legal term/jargon for that? Is that what they used to call a ‘hangin’ judge’?

I’ve been accused of worse by better, but they knew how to spell “mantle”.  As for the “whine”, I could’ve gone Brit and said “whinge” as others have done, but I’m merely an unreformed verbal irritant. Nice to see it still works episodically.

[Tony_Muldoon]

Odd this thread has more comments on the messenger, rather than the message.


Apparently it's about strategy!!!
https://www.independent.ie/sport/golf/mcilroy-doubles-down-on-course-criticism-after-venting-38549910.html


At least Molinari understands it's about Penal golf.

[Tom_Doak]

Sounds like Rory would certainly be an advocate of a rollback then!!  Restore 450 yard par 4s to Driver/long iron instead of bomb and wedge gouge-fest!

Yes, but this is the solution which must not be mentioned . . . It is easier to blame architects and set up guys than it is to blame the guys paying you to play their clubs and balls.  But I don't know if the latter has even occurred to Rory.


He did join Sebonack at one point, which is as hard as it gets; God forbid that more clients want me to build courses that hard.

[Ben Stephens]

Rory's major wins:


2011 US Open - Congressional (more like an RTJ/Rees than Emmet - thank god its being reverted back to an 'Emmet')
2012 PGA - Kiawah (Dye)
2014 Open
2014 PGA - Valhalla (Nicklaus)




Bar Hoylake these courses are late 20th century GCA which are long and seem to have quite wide fairways that suits Rory's game. Rory seems to like playing Pete Dye designed courses having won the Players this year and 2012 BMW at Crooked Stick. His record on the traditional strong golden age courses is not that great.


The condition of the courses on the European Tour is no comparison to the PGA Tour which tend to cotton wool the top golfers in which some organise their calendar to play courses to suit their own game (Mickelson). [size=78%]One wonders why Tiger never went back to Harbour Town [/size] [size=78%] [/size]


I was not surprised that many pros praised the condition of Wentworth which I think has been ruined and no longer a Colt course the one I remember from the days of the World Matchplay.[size=78%] [/size]

[Tony_Muldoon]

Love it when he's on form, but I wish he'd speak less and hit fewer balls when it matters i.e. at the majors.

I couldn't disagree with this sentiment more Tony. 

That's your right Jason, and as an American I perfectly understand why you want him to hit a greater no of shots in the Majors.

[Tony_Muldoon]

In all seriousness I think not winning the pro/am with his dad (just before Gerry's 60th as well) was what really had him narked.

...or the fact that the winners caddie was one JP Fitzgerald who took two years off after Rory sacked him and has just returned to work. They haven't spoken since.


(yes he did whinge on the BBC about loosing it on countback...of the professionals score.)

[Rob Marshall]

Rory also defended him https://www.bbc.com/sport/golf/14352610

He was also "sacked" by Matt Wolff who went on to win his next tournament.

[Chris Kane]

Love the guy but last weekend was the prototypical McIlroy public explosion when things don't go his way. He's more articulate than most of his peers, and less guarded around the media, which obscures what happened - this was the high-class version of smashing up a hotel room after a poor performance.


He is an intelligent man. If he had control of his emotions during that presser, he wouldn't have made an argument full of holes, necessitating the partial backdown the next day.


McIlroy is 30 going on 12, golf's edition of the Tom Hanks character in the movie Big. It is part of what makes him the most compelling - and one of the most likeable - player of his generation.

[John Emerson]

I personally think he’s about two steps away from being on the american Ryder cup team. This is all just parting shots to the euro tour. He married to an American and lives here....once he gets citizenship I wouldn’t be surprised if he plans to play for USA one day.

[Jeff Schley]

once he gets citizenship I wouldn’t be surprised if he plans to play for USA one day.

Do you really think that will happen?  He would be vilified for such IMO.

[Tony_Muldoon]

once he gets citizenship I wouldn’t be surprised if he plans to play for USA one day.

Do you really think that will happen?  He would be vilified for such IMO.

Not because he'd be vilified, he just wont do it. Sadly he's a lot younger than I am so I can't offer a bet that it will never happen, but... it will NEVER happen.


(The thoughts of an Irishman living in England married to a woman who identifies as English and with a Daughter ditto.)

[Kalen Braley]

If was based on where they live most of the year, would the Euros even have a competitive team?  Who doesn't live in the States...and that goes for the International team as well.