[Rob Marshall]

I’m in Charleston for a few days and played a course today that was in the process of renovating some bunkers. The lining was small pebbles bound together with some sort of cement. Then they just pour in the sand. Seems like the life of the bunker would be infinite when constructed this way. Is this a new trend, southern method?


My home course in Rochester NY, is undergoing a long needed bunker renovation next fall. The company we’re using is going to use a sod lining.

[John Emerson]

The thing with the “pebble and epoxy” method is like anything else that’s been invented....it will eventually fail and need to be replaced.  The colder the climate, the shorter the lifespan of this type of liner.  Freezing, thawing, repeat-is very hard on these types of liners.  But they do drain water quickly, with little sand movement.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

We installed Capillary Concrete bunker liners in one of our 3 courses in " The Valley of the Sun"  this past summer. So far, so good.


http://www.capillaryconcrete.com/

[Willie_Dow]

John Emerson:  What is the root cause of failure due to temperature?  Is it the type of epoxy, or just age?


Is this the "Billy Bunker" approach?

[John Emerson]

John Emerson:  What is the root cause of failure due to temperature?  Is it the type of epoxy, or just age?


Is this the "Billy Bunker" approach?

Freezing and thawing causes the epoxy and pebble structure to crack and break over the seasons.  Same goes for any of concrete bunker liners.  Example———Every spring roads are full of pot holes from the winter freezing and thawing.  The material expands and contracts with the temp and then cracks and breaks.  Same goes for these bunker liners.  So the colder the climate the shorter the life span.  Make sense?

[Kalen Braley]

John Emerson:  What is the root cause of failure due to temperature?  Is it the type of epoxy, or just age?


Is this the "Billy Bunker" approach?

Freezing and thawing causes the epoxy and pebble structure to crack and break over the seasons.  Same goes for any of concrete bunker liners.  Example———Every spring roads are full of pot holes from the winter freezing and thawing.  The material expands and contracts with the temp and then cracks and breaks.  Same goes for these bunker liners.  So the colder the climate the shorter the life span.  Make sense?

John,


I always thought it was vehicle traffic on concrete, in these varying conditions, that ultimately busted em up.  Sidewalks don't seem to get nearly as hammered, unless it roots from trees.


Wouldn't same apply for concrete liners?

[John Emerson]

Yes, vehicles perpetuate the breaking but the freezing and thawing is the root cause.  If a club has the money to keep up with costs associated with concrete or stone liners then this is the best method available. 

[Ben Attwood]

Hi John, could you clarify what the costs associated with the bunkers are? I also wonder if you could expand on 'the best method available? Many thanks

[John Emerson]

Ben,
I don’t have numbers off hand but it’s one of the more costly methods for bunker drainage.  I can hook you up with someone if you need hard numbers.  Is it worth it?  If you can afford it, yes!  But it is costly, and it does have a lifespan.  The colder the climate the shorter the life span.  No bunker drainage method last forever.  It’s pretty amazing the rate at which it drains water!  Being that it’s a bit expensive many clubs don’t have the luxury. 

[Anthony_Nysse]

$2-$2.50 a linear foot. You have to go through certification for  BBB. Not sure of Capillary concrete of Matrix. Some clubs are testing out sod liners even to save costs.


Over 600 golf courses in the US have installed BBB, going back to 1994. If youre getting 15-20yrs out off bunkers, Id be happy with that.



https://www.billybunker.com/client-list

[Ben Attwood]

Thank you. Yes 20+ years would surely be pretty cost effective.


I've heard that, depending on site, the maintenence is also less, freeing green staff to work on other aspects of the course. Is that accurate?


Does this method also preclude certain styles, sizes or shapes of bunkers?

[Steve_ Shaffer]

A major reason we chose Capillary Concrete was their " 10 year Performance Guarantee"


http://www.capillaryconcrete.com/insured-financial-guarantee/

[Anthony_Nysse]

Thank you. Yes 20+ years would surely be pretty cost effective.


I've heard that, depending on site, the maintenence is also less, freeing green staff to work on other aspects of the course. Is that accurate?


Does this method also preclude certain styles, sizes or shapes of bunkers?

Yes-Depending on climate, its pay off can be rather quick, when you consider labor to push ups banks, tamp and not have contaminated sand. (spec'ed sand can be REALLY expensive.) As a golfer, you will also have better consistency.

[Don Mahaffey]

The thing with the “pebble and epoxy” method is like anything else that’s been invented....it will eventually fail and need to be replaced.  The colder the climate, the shorter the lifespan of this type of liner.  Freezing, thawing, repeat-is very hard on these types of liners.  But they do drain water quickly, with little sand movement.

Yes, everything will eventually fail but I think comparing bunker liners to roads is misleading. Its a different binding system and the freeze thaw question was the first everyone asked when these systems came out. If they didn't hold up to that, they'd be long gone by now.

I don't sell the stuff, but I've installed just about every type (not the asphalt) liner including Billy and Capillary. Some of these liners have been in the ground for over a decade now in the NE and they have yet to fall apart. I understand the theory of tying it to freeze thaw and saying it will eventually fail, but if you are going to state that, I think you should bring some evidence.

I hate em all, but in today's golf conditioning world, saying the bunkers are a hazard and you don't need a liner gets you kicked to the curb and the next guy hired. Clubs expect perfect bunkers, and it's not always a cost benefit decision because you could replace a lot of sand for the cost of these systems. Its more, "I'm playing on sat morn and I don't care if it rained Fri night, I expect perfection"

[Jeff_Brauer]

One of the BBB sales points is that if it cracks, you can peel back the sand, tamp it down to level and reapply the polymer.  They could probably give most stones in use a million year guarantee when you think about it.


The liners don't preclude any bunker style, they were created to support the very steep ones by holding sand up top a little better.  However, sand still washes if you allow tons of overland drainage to come over the top of your bunker via poor design or construction.  I have measured banks that hold up, and still think that the last foot of the bunker might be 33% slope, and 25% slope (about the angle of repose on many sands) looks and holds up best.


I do think the rough surface of BBB holds sand better than most fabric liners, although there is a new generation of those.


Bunker liners might be a questionable thing here, but my sense is that within the industry they have morphed from luxury items to standard construction procedure, even with some uncertainty to life span due to their newness.

[Angela Moser]

Has anyone any experience with polylast bunker liner?

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