Does Modern Architecture needs mean, crotchety SOB's?

[Mike_Cirba]

I'm thinking about the temperaments of some of the earliest designers and have decided that perhaps today's architects are just too damn nice.

How about C.B. Macdonald?  Here's a guy who got the first national amateur championship revoked and nullifed because he didn't win.  In later life, he mentioned that he wouldn't walk around the block to do another golf course project.

How about Mr. Fownes out at Oakmont?  Not only did he devise implments of torture, but he would conspicuosly mark places where members drove the ball to and install new bunkers.  I'm almost surprised he didn't install electric shocks in the cups.

And although Crump was evidently beloved by others, I have to wonder if he felt the same in return.  After all, he essentially became a hermit for years, purposefully removing himself from the polite society he grew up in and spending time in his own private heaven/hell, building a course of bitter golfing punishment.  

Mackenzie?  For all of his talk of beauty and pleasurable, healthy excitement, I sense he could be as prickly as a pear.  Didn't his world travels begin because of scandalous behavior back home?  

Would anyone want to meet a juiced-up Tillighast in a dark alley late at night?

Was Travis a delightful, politically correct fellow?

Would architecture in modern times be better served by some characters of questionable repute?  Which modern architects come close to the persnickity arrogance and often punitive attitude displayed by their earliest predecessors?

[T_MacWood]

Walter Travis was a mean spirited SOB....had GCA existed in 1922, David Wigler would have asked Ran to have barred from the site.

Rees Jones seems to be very nice, Tom Fazio is very generous, Roger Rulewich treated Yale poorly...perhaps he has potoential.

[Dan Kelly]

On numerous occasions, Mr. Paul (Tom I) has espoused the architectural virtues of a flask filled with distilled spirits.

Do you suppose there's any cross-over here -- between Golden Age crotchetiness and Golden Age hooch?

I am too polite to ask about any modern-day parallels.

[Craig Disher]

Arthur Hills is one of the nicest, most amiable people you will ever meet. The same can be said for his staff.

[Shaper]

CDisher, The same can be said about Roger Rulewich. Tom Fazio is a gem.

[SPDB]

Does modern usage need subject/verb agreement?

Were Bill Strunk and Elwyn White too pleasant? Perhaps if they were more crotchety their work would be admired? respected? adhered to?

 

I don't know if this is an architecture-specific question.

O tempora, o mores.

[Gary_Smith]

Tom Weiskopf wouldn't win any Mr. Congeniality contests.

[Marty Bonnar]

I'll be happy (?) to do mean and crotchetty if it means I can get some work.....

 
Martin.

[ian]

Mike,

I think your premise is very true, but I think you can't compare the times. Many early architects such as MacDonald, Wilson, Frownes, Crump, and Thomas were from the wealthy elite. They were placed in a position where they were the best experts on this "brand new" game, and clubs sought out their advise. They were trusted by the directors of the club to improve the course. They had both the status and background to dictate over the club.

Today's architecture has to deal with a "membership" vote or directive. They also have to deal with competition, if a committee doesn't like an architects solution, there are hundreds of other architects to take there place. Many architects are doing there best to make ends meet, and often have to comprimise their work to make sure they can pay the bills. Lastly, today's architect has a media realted profile which forces the architect to be accessible and clever in the public. A lot of golf architecture is selling the architect, as much as selling his abilities. Its a lot easier to sell Tom Fazio (the king of modern architects-golf digest) or Rees Jones (the open doctor-golf digest again), when both are very friendly and available to any reporter who wants an interview.

Talent is still talent, a guy like Tom Doak (who has offended some), still can be "prickly" (blunt) and have success. But have you ever noticed it is easier to like Bill Coore because he is nice on top of being a great architect.

Note to self: be more miserable (at least that should come easy).

[RJ_Daley]

Mike C., all this means to me is that perhaps the wrong Kavanaugh brother is designing golf courses.

[SteveTL]

Gary Smith,

Do you say that about Weiskopf by reputation or experience?

Steve

[Brian Phillips]

Martin,

That   face is me after just five pints of Guinness but it is missing the black tooth... the other   face is more like me after twelve pints of Guinness.

Brian

[Darren_Kilfara]

Mike, I think you're confusing cause and effect, here. Except possibly in the case of Mr. Fownes, who created a golf course (or to be more precise, a golfing experience) to suit his temperment, I don't think there are many situations you could point to where being a mean, crotchety SOB actually helped or hindered an architect's creativity. And to be honest, while I'd like for all people to live together in a spirit of peace and cooperation, when I'm playing a very good golf course, I don't care in the slightest whether its architect was a saint or a sinner, just as I didn't care whether Michaelangelo was a nice guy while I was standing beneath the Sistine Chapel ceiling. The proof, as they say, is in the pudding...

Cheers,
Darren

[d.s. beleaf]

"People do not want a tale of woe . . . they want results from a worker who managed to keep a smile most of the time."
 Edward S. Curtis, date unknown

[TEPaul]

Modern golf architecture does not need mean, crotchety SOB's--it just needs more modern architects who drink more and a lot more.

I don't know what the hell is wrong with today's architects when I've offered to buy any and all of them a really nice flask for Christmas only providing they promise to fill it everyday with something strong and drink the whole thing on site and on the job.

I don't know what it is about some of these architects today  anyway who say they study the architecture of the old guys for inspiration. Just look at Tillinghast--maybe they are studying his architecture but for the true way to derive the kind of talent he had and to create something like he did they're all missing the obvious!!

Anybody, architect or otherwise, who's not completely wet behind the ears knows that booze and a lot of it is the only real way to be smart--or really reach the pinnacle of that necessary "creative mode"!

[TEPaul]

Furthermore, I think I can probably seriously refine this "flask architecture" thing.

If an architect is sitting on a raw site like a Cypress Point he should always have a couple of flasks of a really good cabernet or maybe bordeaux and maybe even a nice little wine glass in his satchel so he can just get into that mode and let that site talk to him and him to it!

But if he's on a site that has all kinds of obstacles and problematic areas to deal with a flask full of bourbon could probably do the trick and if he's somewhere that might have a ton of rock or something like that under the surface he'd better chug at least a flaskful of gin and just get mad as hell, get really destructive and get on with it!

[TEPaul]

Have any of you guys seen Alpine G.C. by Tillinghast? If that isn't "gin flask architecture" I don't know what is!!