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Tim Gavrich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Two architectural enthusiasts meet in a bar...
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2018, 09:33:20 PM »
Imagining this situation here in FL, I'd probably just ask the person's opinions of the courses at Streamsong. That's a pretty good litmus test for someone's openness to atypical Florida GCA.


What if he said they were mediocre AF?
I'd need elaboration in order not to think him a contrarian just for the sake of it.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Peter Pallotta

Re: Two architectural enthusiasts meet in a bar...
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2018, 09:49:50 PM »
I just got an image of an old veteran ending a master class to the golf industry's newest generation of would-be course builders:

'Oh yeah - one last thing: if you're ever stuck sitting on a plane with anyone who looks like a golfer, for god's sake don't tell him you're an architect!'   

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Two architectural enthusiasts meet in a bar...
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2018, 09:51:25 PM »
Imagining this situation here in FL, I'd probably just ask the person's opinions of the courses at Streamsong. That's a pretty good litmus test for someone's openness to atypical Florida GCA.


What if he said they were mediocre AF?
I'd need elaboration in order not to think him a contrarian just for the sake of it.


Anyone who says they're great would need to elaborate for me not to think him a group think butt boy.
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Two architectural enthusiasts meet in a bar...
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2018, 11:47:19 PM »
It's not my style to ask an early question to drill down quickly.
But if I did, the question might be: "What kind of player are you?"

Tim Gallant

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Two architectural enthusiasts meet in a bar...
« Reply #29 on: November 20, 2018, 03:48:08 AM »

A considerate enthusiast would recognize that we are all at different points on the path to being a connoisseur and be kind, even if they didn't know all the "right" answers.


I was interviewed on a golf radio show a few months back, and the host said he was an enthusiast, but a bit afraid to discuss Redans and so forth on the air because he wasn't absolutely sure, especially sitting down with an architect.


If I was in that situation, I would self identify as an architect, and then proceed to answer any question that didn't begin with "Hey, asshole, .……?" :(


Jeff,


Thanks for this. I had this in my mind after I posed the question. Really, even if certain viewpoints jive with own own thoughts on GCA, there may be something to learn. But that first question may help understand the right questions to ask thereafter.


Even when talking to a normal retail golfer who might only have a few passing thoughts on GCA, it may be possible to 'take the pulse' of the average opinion at the moment and understand what the mass like/dislike.

Jim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Two architectural enthusiasts meet in a bar...
« Reply #30 on: November 20, 2018, 07:23:15 AM »
"Did CBM design Merion?"


Ryan Hillenbrand

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Two architectural enthusiasts meet in a bar...
« Reply #31 on: November 20, 2018, 10:10:44 AM »
What's your favorite template?

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Two architectural enthusiasts meet in a bar...
« Reply #32 on: November 20, 2018, 11:18:17 AM »

A considerate enthusiast would recognize that we are all at different points on the path to being a connoisseur and be kind, even if they didn't know all the "right" answers.


I was interviewed on a golf radio show a few months back, and the host said he was an enthusiast, but a bit afraid to discuss Redans and so forth on the air because he wasn't absolutely sure, especially sitting down with an architect.


If I was in that situation, I would self identify as an architect, and then proceed to answer any question that didn't begin with "Hey, asshole, .……?" :(


Jeff,


Thanks for this. I had this in my mind after I posed the question. Really, even if certain viewpoints jive with own own thoughts on GCA, there may be something to learn. But that first question may help understand the right questions to ask thereafter.


Even when talking to a normal retail golfer who might only have a few passing thoughts on GCA, it may be possible to 'take the pulse' of the average opinion at the moment and understand what the mass like/dislike.



Tim,


Even among enthusiasts, I would think you would learn more, if truly open minded, from someone who disagrees with you (and probably the entire GCA.COM group think, than someone who parrots your views, no?


In my real life, my son (a good golfer) hates a particular reverse slope green.  Archie forces a layup and 200 yard approach, then makes the front half of the green steep to the front, back half reverse slope to back right.  Then, there are (actually were, I saw some had been removed) on the front left and left of green.  In essence, he has no shot. Just another example of how others (not participating here) understand that good golfers think its the architects job to provide at least one way to play to each pin.


The current thread here about "Every shot counts" seems to have opened some eyes about how strategy has become much more statistical and mathy than the old days. (Following design, maintenance, construction, etc., it just seems to happen)  I know at least my designs will consider the in put from these books, even if we could only count Erik as an architecture enthusiast among the thought leaders in statistical strategy.


We all just keep on learning until we die.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Two architectural enthusiasts meet in a bar...
« Reply #33 on: November 20, 2018, 01:32:43 PM »
Wanna buy some Tillinghast or Mackenzie drawings?
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Rich Goodale

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Two architectural enthusiasts meet in a bar...
« Reply #34 on: November 20, 2018, 01:42:05 PM »
How soon do you forget, Mike C., et. al. when TE Paul bought the original Pine Valley routings from a dive bar in Jersey....


TDS? ;)
Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Two architectural enthusiasts meet in a bar...
« Reply #35 on: November 20, 2018, 01:47:30 PM »
So the issue is "How do you separate a true expert from a passionate novice?"  If so, my response is "check for dirt under their fingernails."

Somewhat reminds me of the old witticism:  "If you don't know who the fool in the poker game is, it's you."

Happy Thanksgiving.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2018, 02:01:54 PM by Michael H »
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Two architectural enthusiasts meet in a bar...
« Reply #36 on: November 20, 2018, 02:28:00 PM »
How soon do you forget, Mike C., et. al. when TE Paul bought the original Pine Valley routings from a dive bar in Jersey....


TDS? ;)



Thought it was hanging in a tire shop?
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Peter Flory

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Two architectural enthusiasts meet in a bar...
« Reply #37 on: November 20, 2018, 02:41:46 PM »
What is your opinion of the tree on Number 4 at Mid Pines?


Ira


That's pretty funny.  I just hit that tree en route to a 7 a couple weeks ago. 

Ed Brzezowski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Two architectural enthusiasts meet in a bar...
« Reply #38 on: November 20, 2018, 02:44:20 PM »
Let’s assume this conversation is happening where I live in the Delaware Valley.  So my question for this person is simple:  do you prefer Glen Mills or Broad Run?  Their answer will speak volumes.

Now that's funny.
We have a pool and a pond, the pond would be good for you.

Buck Wolter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Two architectural enthusiasts meet in a bar...
« Reply #39 on: November 20, 2018, 03:28:03 PM »
What's the longest/hardest trip you've ever made to play a golf course?
Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience -- CS Lewis

Matthew Mollica

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Two architectural enthusiasts meet in a bar...
« Reply #40 on: November 20, 2018, 03:44:42 PM »
“What do you think of the route plan for The Buck Club?”
"The truth about golf courses has a slightly different expression for every golfer. Which of them, one might ask, is without the most definitive convictions concerning the merits or deficiencies of the links he plays over? Freedom of criticism is one of the last privileges he is likely to forgo."

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Two architectural enthusiasts meet in a bar...
« Reply #41 on: November 20, 2018, 04:11:24 PM »
“What do you think of the route plan for The Buck Club?”


If they say gross you are in.

Jay Mickle

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Two architectural enthusiasts meet in a bar...
« Reply #42 on: November 20, 2018, 04:41:10 PM »
Met a fellow at Pinehurst who had just played #4 before I had a chance to ask what he thought he noticed my Pine Needles logo shirt. He said that he really liked Pine Needles "It has some great water holes". Next!
@MickleStix on Instagram
MickleStix.com

Michael Goldstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Two architectural enthusiasts meet in a bar...
« Reply #43 on: November 20, 2018, 08:18:01 PM »
Hi Tim!
I've had this before a few times... One great one was 'what do you think of Westwood Ho'
If someone asked me what my favourite template hole was then it'd be a quick beer.
@Pure_Golf

Peter Pallotta

Re: Two architectural enthusiasts meet in a bar...
« Reply #44 on: November 20, 2018, 08:34:01 PM »
Met a fellow at Pinehurst who had just played #4 before I had a chance to ask what he thought he noticed my Pine Needles logo shirt. He said that he really liked Pine Needles "It has some great water holes". Next!
Jay, with your old school golf bag, I would've expected you to use/have an old-school thought, i.e. "Here's your hat, what's your hurry?"
 

Chris Mavros

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Two architectural enthusiasts meet in a bar...
« Reply #45 on: November 20, 2018, 09:26:06 PM »
Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm not interested in how knowledgeable they are about GCA or if they give me all the "right" answers.  If they're enthusiastic about GCA, then I'm just happy to discuss courses, holes, and see what they like and why.  Anyone that wants to get in a snob contest or tries a litmus test on me, I'd move over a seat and just watch whatever is on tv. 

Someone said that you learn more from someone that disagrees with you than someone that parrots your own views and that's something I completely agree with.  We never stop learning.  I guess that makes me a passionate novice, which is good by me and accurate by all accounts. 

I've discussed GCA with designers that post on this site as well as guys who like RTJ more than Donald Ross, but if someone likes RTJ more and they like GCA, then I like to discuss.  I would never presume that just because they like one course or designer more than I do means anything other than they have different preferences. 


I like to talk golf with anyone else that likes to talk golf. 

Ian Andrew

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Two architectural enthusiasts meet in a bar...
« Reply #46 on: November 20, 2018, 10:44:25 PM »
How soon do you forget, Mike C., et. al. when TE Paul bought the original Pine Valley routings from a dive bar in Jersey....


It was on Ebay.
The person who was selling it was at a flea market and recognised what it was.


Or did I miss the tongue in cheek part of this post ...
« Last Edit: November 20, 2018, 10:47:28 PM by Ian Andrew »
With every golf development bubble, the end was unexpected and brutal....

David Davis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Two architectural enthusiasts meet in a bar...
« Reply #47 on: November 21, 2018, 07:05:08 AM »
That Cypress Point logo on your sweater matches your eyes perfectly. Your husband must be a golfer?


- funny, I'm not married.


Ok fair enough, so what did you think of the course then?




Sharing the greatest experiences in golf.

IG: @top100golftraveler
www.lockharttravelclub.com

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Two architectural enthusiasts meet in a bar...
« Reply #48 on: November 21, 2018, 07:08:36 AM »
Are you Roman Catholic a rater?

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Two architectural enthusiasts meet in a bar...
« Reply #49 on: November 21, 2018, 08:39:24 AM »
See any good ass pics lately?
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

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