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Kyle Harris

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak on how to rate a golf course
« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2018, 09:33:20 AM »
Niall,


I've always interpreted Tom's scale, in terms of regional ratings, to be the opportunity cost between playing one course vs. another from Doak 5 to Doak 8. Doak 9's and 10's always felt more like golf architect required reading and anything 4 and below simply not worth playing at the expense of anything else.
http://kylewharris.com

Constantly blamed by 8-handicaps for their 7 missed 12-footers each round.

Thank you for changing the font of your posts. It makes them easier to scroll past.

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak on how to rate a golf course
« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2018, 09:35:36 AM »
"When I’m trying to rate a course I’ve just seen for The Confidential Guide, generally it’s more of a feeling than a rigorous analysis" TD

As Mr. Nicklaus once suggested, the number of site visits necessary to design a course probably depends on how far along one is on the learning curve.  Some folks can develop the "feel" to rate a course from the parking lot or the back of the pro shop.  A few here seem to have completed the learning such that they can even do so from pictures posted on the site and who designed the course.

I do like the suggested criteria, though attempts to be different or novel for its own sake are not a personal requirement.  After all, golf is a game of tradition and the familiar.  Nature should provide a capable designer all the variety we need.

Golf is a competitive game, so the ability of a course to hold challenging club championships is also an important factor in my book.  If it can do so at higher levels while still remaining playable for its normal customers, it is held in higher esteem.

As to the routing, I think that many years ago, budgets, equipment, and that the game was played on foot had a lot to do with their compactness.  Today, environmental restrictions, land-use objectives and requirements, changed preferences on how the game is played, and the cost to build courses near sufficiently large population centers have a lot to do with the routing.  Also, some architects appear to care more about variety, balance, and ebb and flow within the routing, perhaps sacrificing a superior green site for a hole that closely resembled its predecessor in favor of one that requires different skills.

I can buy that greens probably better reflect the personalities of the designers.  And perhaps their games as well.


Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak on how to rate a golf course
« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2018, 05:12:47 AM »
Plus, we all have our upper limits of elevation change for the balance between a good walk and interesting golf.  I generally work on a max of 20 feet per climb as an UPPER limit.  While my threshold may be somewhat higher when the shots are compelling,

You must find the shots on the 3rd hole at Cleeve Cloud VERY compelling.   :D

I do!  Its a good hole, but not one I would say is ideal.  But ya gotta have holes like this just so we know what is possible.  On its own the 3rd isn't an issue, when combined with the other holes there is no doubt in my mind the up and down element of Cleeve Cloud as a whole is a bit overbearing.  I played it again this past Sunday, my playing partner was not impressed with the walk.

"When I’m trying to rate a course I’ve just seen for The Confidential Guide, generally it’s more of a feeling than a rigorous analysis." TD

This is basically my approach. I try to see a course for what it is rather than see it against a checklist.  The one exception is variety....I want a variety of everything especially hazards and green sites/styles. It always feels weird to then then slot numbers against design categories because my brain doesn't work this way.

Ciao
« Last Edit: November 16, 2018, 05:21:34 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Jay Mickle

  • Karma: +0/-0
« Last Edit: November 16, 2018, 07:24:01 AM by Jay Mickle »
@MickleStix on Instagram
MickleStix.com

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak on how to rate a golf course
« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2018, 08:34:22 AM »
Plus, we all have our upper limits of elevation change for the balance between a good walk and interesting golf.  I generally work on a max of 20 feet per climb as an UPPER limit.  While my threshold may be somewhat higher when the shots are compelling,
You must find the shots on the 3rd hole at Cleeve Cloud VERY compelling.   :D


Sounds like a recipe for a Most Severe but still walkable 18-holes thread.....


1st Painswick or Kington or Church Stretton
2nd...
3rd Cleeve Cloud
4th....
5th....
Etc
:)
Atb

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak on how to rate a golf course
« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2018, 09:19:25 AM »
Oh man...the first at Painswick is a much more severe grade...it is a dreadful hole...waste of a great quarry feature.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

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