[Tim Gallant]

I did try (for a good 20 minutes) to find an appropriate thread to put this on, but couldn't find one. If anyone has any searching tips, that would be much appreciated (even tried via Google).


Anywho, I saw this posted, and is one of the first photos i've seen out of the club:


http://www.bunkershot.com/post/179650748403/heritage-links-providing-construction-services-for


It has a nice short description about the work that is being done. From one photo, the bunkers seem more aesthetically pleasing than the round ovals that were there, but I appreciate that this is very much the 'in vogue' look.

Would be great to hear from those who know the course how the progress is taking shape and any interesting insights. From the description in the link, it appears that a majority of the changes will be aesthetically and concerning drainage, but I can't say I'm familiar with the restoration plan. I've never played the course, just an interested mind that would love to hear more about this Maxwell masterpiece!! It looks like a fantastic place for a game of golf!

[Mark McKeever]

Looks like Aronimink

[Matthew Rose]

Those bunkers are decidedly Un-Maxwell, at least based on my own (possibly not entirely correct) knowledge that his bunkers tended to be round or oval most of the time.

I guess that's not a big deal.... was that how they were intended to be and just became round due to maintenance, or something else?

Objectively they look cool though.

[Brian Finn]

Those bunkers are decidedly Un-Maxwell, at least based on my own (possibly not entirely correct) knowledge that his bunkers tended to be round or oval most of the time.

I guess that's not a big deal.... was that how they were intended to be and just became round due to maintenance, or something else?

Objectively they look cool though.

The best examples of Maxwell’s work all have bunkers similar to those pictured in the restoration photos of Southern Hills. Prairie Dunes and Old Town Club are the premier examples, of which you can find many photos, old and new. To say his bunkers tended to be oval/round would be incorrect.

If you’re interested in Maxwell, there is a twitter account (@dornickmaxwell) that posts many historical photos of courses like Prairie Dunes, Twin Hills, and others. There are also some good, old photos in Mal Elliott’s book, Perry Maxwell’s Prairie Dunes.

[Dunlop_White]

Hello Brian, Do you know who operates the @DornickMaxwell Twitter account?

[Ryan Farrow]

Here is a short article about the work being done at the club: https://issuu.com/southcentralgolf/docs/octnov2018/22


I only helped out for a month so I do not want to get too far ahead of anyone or speak for Gil or Jim. All I will say is that Maxwell did not build giant oval bunkers. Too suggest that is absurd, I hope that was a joke. 


To prove the point I posted a few photos below of Twin Hills and OK City CC:
































 

[Tim Gallant]

Those bunkers are decidedly Un-Maxwell, at least based on my own (possibly not entirely correct) knowledge that his bunkers tended to be round or oval most of the time.

I guess that's not a big deal.... was that how they were intended to be and just became round due to maintenance, or something else?

Objectively they look cool though.

The best examples of Maxwell’s work all have bunkers similar to those pictured in the restoration photos of Southern Hills. Prairie Dunes and Old Town Club are the premier examples, of which you can find many photos, old and new. To say his bunkers tended to be oval/round would be incorrect.

If you’re interested in Maxwell, there is a twitter account (@dornickmaxwell) that posts many historical photos of courses like Prairie Dunes, Twin Hills, and others. There are also some good, old photos in Mal Elliott’s book, Perry Maxwell’s Prairie Dunes.

Brian,

Thank you for passing on the twitter account. Some really interesting additional photos of the restoration.

[Tim Gallant]

Ryan,

Thank you for posting those photos - really great to have these as reference. Are you able to advise what other changes are being made to the course? In the article it mentioned drainage, irrigation and building USGA bunkers and greens. Is there tree removal as well? Any strategic changes to any of the holes? New tees?

[mark chalfant]

Tim,


A key element of the master plan will be restoration of streams that have been lost over the course of many decades. Some of these Maxwell features will now cross and or divide fairways.  In some cases fairway expansion will thoughtfully introduce strategic verve, angles, and playing interest


The "new holes" at 2,7, and 18 will be especially memorable

[Ryan Hillenbrand]

Ryan Farrow,


Who was responsible for the giant white saucer bunkers at Southern Hills?

[Matthew Rose]

Hello Brian, Do you know who operates the @DornickMaxwell Twitter account?

Here is a short article about the work being done at the club: https://issuu.com/southcentralgolf/docs/octnov2018/22

I only helped out for a month so I do not want to get too far ahead of anyone or speak for Gil or Jim. All I will say is that Maxwell did not build giant oval bunkers. Too suggest that is absurd, I hope that was a joke. 

No, it wasn't a joke.... but I didn't mean to imply he built them that way, I just noticed a lot of Maxwell courses have round bunkers, which I would have assumed would be a result of maintenance practices.

What were Southern Hills' bunkers like originally?

[Tommy Naccarato]

Those bunkers are decidedly Un-Maxwell, at least based on my own (possibly not entirely correct) knowledge that his bunkers tended to be round or oval most of the time.

I guess that's not a big deal.... was that how they were intended to be and just became round due to maintenance, or something else?

Objectively they look cool though.

And your an expert on this?!?!  Where did this expert opinion of yours come from?  Please do tell!

[Tommy Naccarato]

Ryan, Thanks!  I didn’t see your post when in response to this idiot!

[Tommy Naccarato]

Ryan Farrow,


Who was responsible for the giant white saucer bunkers at Southern Hills?

Keith Foster Under direction of the club at that time.

[Tommy Naccarato]

Hello Brian, Do you know who operates the @DornickMaxwell Twitter account?

Here is a short article about the work being done at the club: https://issuu.com/southcentralgolf/docs/octnov2018/22

I only helped out for a month so I do not want to get too far ahead of anyone or speak for Gil or Jim. All I will say is that Maxwell did not build giant oval bunkers. Too suggest that is absurd, I hope that was a joke. 

No, it wasn't a joke.... but I didn't mean to imply he built them that way, I just noticed a lot of Maxwell courses have round bunkers, which I would have assumed would be a result of maintenance practices.

What were Southern Hills' bunkers like originally?

Quit now please!  Stop!


Other’s, The bunkers show very similar in the aerials we found.  (Well, what I found). There were a lot of different style that could have been used, but after reviewing Old Town as well as using the aerial photos, this was the style that best fit.  After all Russ Myers has to maintain them and no one knows Southern Hills better!  The golf course was built during the Dust Bowl, so you can imagine, resources weren’t the greatest.  What is great about Southern Hills is the incredible routing over rolling hills intersected by creeks.  The strategies fit that golf course like a glove!  So while some of you think ‘round bunkers’ well, you just missed the best part of the place and that’s the land it’s on!

[Matthew Rose]

Yikes. Forget I said anything at all.

All I can say is I only posted with what I thought were good intentions. I apologize.

 

[Sven Nilsen]

Those bunkers are decidedly Un-Maxwell, at least based on my own (possibly not entirely correct) knowledge that his bunkers tended to be round or oval most of the time.

I guess that's not a big deal.... was that how they were intended to be and just became round due to maintenance, or something else?

Objectively they look cool though.

And your an expert on this?!?!  Where did this expert opinion of yours come from?  Please do tell!

Relax Tommy, even Matt himself said his opinion might be mistaken.


No need to be spewing invective here, and the "idiot" comment should be deleted.

[Tommy Naccarato]

Yikes. Forget I said anything at all.

All I can say is I only posted with what I thought were good intentions. I apologize.

 

Then realize that next time when making a statement of a subject you know little about.


Sven, Maybe you can find some newspaper articles proving otherwise.

[Sven Nilsen]

Yikes. Forget I said anything at all.

All I can say is I only posted with what I thought were good intentions. I apologize.

 

Then realize that next time when making a statement of a subject you know little about.


Sven, Maybe you can find some newspaper articles proving otherwise.

Having a bad day, Tommy?


You were out of line.

[Sven Nilsen]

Speaking of newspaper articles, here's one, as well as an undated aerial of the course.

Feb. 24, 1936 Greenville News -

[Matthew Rose]

I've already exchanged PMs with Mr. Naccarato about this, and I hope that will ease the tensions here (which are absolutely mystifying to me) but I'll see if I can make sense of this.

I think my first post in this thread is being misinterpreted and part of that is my own fault.... so I'll try to clarify it.

First of all, I am not an expert and don't claim to be anything close to one. I thought adding the caveat would make that apparent, but it seems to have had the opposite effect.

Anyway, my observation (strictly that, nothing more) is that most of the Maxwell courses I've have seen (admittedly only on TV or in books as I do not get the chance to play these courses) generally have oval bunkers in style, like Southern Hills, Colonial, Omaha CC... even some of Augusta's bunkers and I know he worked there for awhile. And I know Prairie Dunes does not and I realized this later.

I saw the pictures of the renovation and thought that "hey, that looks great, is that what they were originally like?".

Anyway, people seem to have interpreted this something much more sinister than it was, and I guess I'll take responsibility for being confusing. I'll politely bow out of this discussion.

Thank you for the aerial Sven, that actually tells me all I wanted to know.

[James Brown]

I've already exchanged PMs with Mr. Naccarato about this, and I hope that will ease the tensions here (which are absolutely mystifying to me) but I'll see if I can make sense of this.

I think my first post in this thread is being misinterpreted and part of that is my own fault.... so I'll try to clarify it.

First of all, I am not an expert and don't claim to be anything close to one. I thought adding the caveat would make that apparent, but it seems to have had the opposite effect.

Anyway, my observation (strictly that, nothing more) is that most of the Maxwell courses I've have seen (admittedly only on TV or in books as I do not get the chance to play these courses) generally have oval bunkers in style, like Southern Hills, Colonial, Omaha CC... even some of Augusta's bunkers and I know he worked there for awhile. And I know Prairie Dunes does not and I realized this later.

I saw the pictures of the renovation and thought that "hey, that looks great, is that what they were originally like?".

Anyway, people seem to have interpreted this something much more sinister than it was, and I guess I'll take responsibility for being confusing. I'll politely bow out of this discussion.

Thank you for the aerial Sven, that actually tells me all I wanted to know.

You shouldn’t have to apologize for offering your opinions here!

[Mark_Fine]

Matthew,
Don’t worry about Tommy.  He is a good guy and his bark is worse than his bite.


You have just fallen victim to what many others have as well.  It would be like going to see East Lake and thinking that is what “a Ross course” looks like or playing Atlantic City CC to see really cool Flynn bunkers or...., I could go on.  I am not suggesting in either of these examples that what is there now is better or worse than was there earlier.  I am just saying you need to understand how the course has evolved. 


Best,
Mark

[Chris Clouser]

I'm hoping they truly do bring back the glory of the 2nd hole.  I think if people saw the glory of what Southern Hills truly was when it was built they would have a whole new perspective on the course. 


I'll stay out of the rabble, other than to say the round bunkers started in the 50s and slowly took over during the following decades.  They influenced the design across the state of Oklahoma for many years to the point that many other Maxwell courses began to copy the design for maintenance purposes and because they thought it was in fashion.

[Ari Techner]

Yikes. Forget I said anything at all.

All I can say is I only posted with what I thought were good intentions. I apologize.

 

Then realize that next time when making a statement of a subject you know little about.


Sven, Maybe you can find some newspaper articles proving otherwise.

Having a bad day, Tommy?


You were out of line.

Not the first time or the last time Tommy has or will be out of line unfortunately.


This place was much better in his absence.


Perhaps he should go back to his own forum?

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