A One-Question Survey on How We Got Interested in Golf Architecture

[Joe Schackman]

I took a quick look at the thread and through Brian's post there have been 40 responses where I could clearly glean an answer to the question (I estimated if someone said "early 20s" and if they said "13 or 14" I used 14 to be conservative).

I get an average of 19 but a median of 16 (a number of people didn't play till the were 30 or 40 but on the flipside not exactly getting any 2 year olds traipsing around Bethpage Black).

Curious if the responses are validating your theory Tom? Because if there ever was a "selection bias" issue, this group is it.

[Brad Tufts]

I was fortunate to grow up on a Golden-Age course, Tedesco, so I had that ingrained in my head early from the random rounds from age 10 or so and up.  Both sets of grandparents belonged there, and my dad joined when I was 11 or 12.

The light went on for me when we started playing junior interclubs, and I had a yearly visit to Essex CC in Mass.  My early golf experience was pretty limited, but I very early on saw the difference between Essex and RTJ's Ipswich CC, and I had lots of early rounds on a very quirky Stiles 9-holer in Salem, MA too that I compared to Tedesco and the others.

The first time I played Essex when I was 13 or so, I shot 119 and lost my bag in the fescue for a few minutes at one point.  Three years later I shot a 76, knew who Donald Ross was, and was making lists of courses around New England that he designed.  I used to scour the "New England Golf Guide" and mark all the Ross courses and where they were.

Add HS golf to the mix, which added a handful of "away" courses to learn when playing against our local schools.  We played at Tedesco and Salem Muni, but added RTJ's Ferncroft in Danvers, Stiles' Gannon Municipal in Lynn and Beverly Golf & Tennis in Beverly, Leeds' Bass Rocks in Gloucester, and a low-key private 9 at Winthrop GC and mom-and-pop public at Cedar Glen in Saugus, MA.  I didn't think much of it then, but just that group represents a ton of variety and history in golf course architecture from 1890s to 1980s!


I also attribute some of my early golf course knowledge expansion to the old hole-a-day calendars.  I'd get a brief tidbit about a hole or course, and if I was interested I'd try to look up the course on the early internet or one of the "places to play" guide books.  Looking at all those holes and reading magazine articles basically led to asking for (and getting, lucky me!) a three-week golf trip to Scotland as my HS grad present!

So...I'd say 14-16 in age.

[Pat Burke]

Two parts
Grew up the son of a head professional at Deal Golf cc 
A Van Etten course with some Ross work.
Was abbto play Hollywood across the street a lot, and due to my dad
Knowing everyone, got  to play a lot of the classic New Jersey courses in the
70’s and esrrlyy  80s


Was drawing holes and courses in school notebooks from about 13 years old on

[Lou_Duran]

Started at 17 with a 7-piece Walter Hagen set, playing rudimentary mom-and-pop rudimentary courses.  Got somewhat serious at age 20 as a student at Ohio State with an annual pass to the Scarlet and Grey club.  Playing Scarlet 75-100x annually for six years set the hook on gca.

[Thomas Dai]

Started aged 5-6 on municipal putting greens and pitch-n-putt courses with my parents, grandparents, uncles, aunts, cousins etc. Played my first normal length course at age 10. Played my first  higher quality course, Saunton East, at age 13 - and I could still recall some of the holes on my next play there several decades later. Started drawing course plans from age 11.
Atb

[V_Halyard]

44 - Started playing in earnest late in life after 40 when my kid decided he wanted to be Tiger Woods. I became involved in golf architecture in-part because I won a bunch of skins one day.

My short game was a yip-laden cluster of frustration, but I could putt like an assassin. SO the sooner I can get the the green, the better. I tried to figure out how to replicate my luck and I realized finding slots to ‘Scottish run-up’ the ball was my pathway to Dolla-Bills.

My golf-smart pal Steve Grief informed me I was subconsciously “Donald Ross-ing” my way to the hole. The thought that I must play more of these Donald Ross designed places initially sparked my interest in Ross (for more skins) and golf architecture.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I was a late bloomer. I was about 35 when I played Riviera. I couldn't believe that a course could be that good.

[Dwight Phelps]

I apparently did it the opposite way.  I was getting bored with the courses I was playing (LA locals - lots of munis) and started looking at all sorts of pictures and course tours.  Only after that did I start reading some of the literature on the subject.


While I had previously played some courses associated with big names, nothing that had really aged well architecturally-speaking.  The first 'significant' course I played after getting interested in all this was Rustic Canyon.

[Daryl David]

For me it was high school when two of us drove up to Banff and Jasper.  Golf was secondary on the agenda as it was mostly supposed to be drinking beer and chasing Canadian girls.  After the first round at Banff, I knew I had been missing something about the game.  Couldn't put my finger on it until college, but I knew what I expected from a golf course had changed.

You drove to Jasper to - chase girls ??


This is the most surprising answer so far!

When you are from Northern Idaho, the resort town girls look pretty good after 5 warm beers. 😄

[Bill Shamleffer]

I am the youngest of 3 brothers, and followed them into the world of caddying at age 12.


The golf club I caddied at had many golfers that took golf serious, including the the history & the rules.
This was golf education 101.


From 1975-1985, Golf Digest & Golf Magazine had many very good articles on golf courses & GCA.
In addition, I stumbled upon a copy of the newly published Golfer-At-Large by Charles Price at the local book store, and have continued to pick that up and re-read his collection of articles & essays ever since.
These were my advanced golf education.


Then at age 17 I played St. Louis C.C. (as an unaccompanied & uninvited guest on a Monday afternoon).
This began my graduate studies in GCA.

[Ryan Hillenbrand]

I caddied in high school in the early 90s at Bellerive and it was the only top 100 course I'd seen. A few year later as a working stiff I caddied in the 1999 US Mid Am at Old Warson and drew the defending champion Spider Miller. Every day he had a new logo shirt, Pine Valley, Seminole, NGLA. I had seen those on the magazine lists and asked him what made them so special.

After each round I went on the internet to try and look up these course, and the only site I could find was this thing called Golf Club Atlas. I think over the period of a year I read every one of Ran's write ups of U.S. courses. I was hooked.

Many years later I stumbled upon the Discussion Group where I learned how wrong I was about everything I thought was good.

[Garland Bayley]

At age 16, I played the Montana high school golf tournament at Yellowstone Country Club in Billings, MT. Since Golf Digest top 100 was the 100 most difficult courses at that time, Yellowstone was a new RTJ course that made it on difficulty.

Lest you think it was a great accomplishment to play in the state championship golf tournament, think again. All high school golf teams in the sparsely populated state played. And since I was on the team from a sparsely populated town, I got to play and shoot big numbers. Our "coach" was the football coach who had never played golf so in essence was our chauffeur. He looked over my scorecard where I had played a string of 6 holes in 1 over par, and wanted to know why I couldn't always play like that.

[Greg Smith]

Started playing golf at age 10.  First "top-100" course I managed to play was Dunes G&BC in Myrtle Beach.   Yeah, I know...  but this was 1979 or 1980, you have to consider the tastes of the day.  I was probably 15 or 16 at that point and could shoot mid-80s on my home course, which was reasonably hard.  But as a long and wild driver, I barely broke 100 at the Dunes and totally screwed up the 13th. 

My short, straight old dad whipped me that day -- and he parred the 13th with a driver, two three-woods, and two putts!

I think however my early ideas about GCA were informed not by courses I played, but rather by Oakmont -- it was the "major championship" venue I walked the most during tournaments and the first, best piece of architecture I got to know well.

[Brad Engel]

Played for my high school golf team here in Cincinnati for 3 years and the first track that really grabbed my attention was during a summer tournament I played at NCR South at age 17. The following Spring I took my first trip to Pinehurst and the rest is history.

[Tom_Doak]

I get an average of 19 but a median of 16 (a number of people didn't play till the were 30 or 40 but on the flipside not exactly getting any 2 year olds traipsing around Bethpage Black).

Curious if the responses are validating your theory Tom? Because if there ever was a "selection bias" issue, this group is it.

I don't know what I was expecting exactly, but I'm surprised to see how many have said they were doodling golf holes when they were 11 or 12, before they had seen even one outstanding course.


I should have asked everyone's age so we could select for that, too.  It's much more likely for someone under 40 today to have found plenty to read about golf architecture in magazines, etc. when they were young.  If you're older than that, as I am, there wasn't much material like that available, so you almost had to get into it by seeing a golf course that tickled your interest.


TV and tournament exposure have had something to do with it, as well.  My earliest memories of golf on TV were the U.S. Opens at Merion and Pebble Beach in '71 and '72 - although, for some reason, I have a distinct memory of Dave Hill's heckling about Hazeltine National in 1970 - and I attended the first round of the Massacre at Winged Foot, in '74, plus at least one Westchester Classic before that.

[Mike Sweeney]

I don't know what I was expecting exactly, but I'm surprised to see how many have said they were doodling golf holes when they were 11 or 12, before they had seen even one outstanding course.

Started fall of high school freshman year, so 12 years old, via a friend as my Dad did not play. Main courses we played were Walnut Lane, Cobbs, Overbrook, Merion West and Whitemarsh due to "The Tribe" of golf team teammates.


I don't remember that there was "a process" to play Merion East, but they were pretty generous. We were sort of scared of Bill Kittleman, but he was secretly a nice guy. Obviously The East had a lasting impression.

[JHoulihan]

2014 age 34. Played Flossmoor/Black Sheep outside Chicago and Kingsley Club/Forest Dunes in MI.


2017 age 37. Played Ballyneal in CO.


Justin

[Dave McCollum]

Caught the addiction very late, age 45.  Took another 7 years to play an architecturally significant course--Bandon and Pacific Dunes and it was so foggy I didn't see much.  Probably about then I starting reading about GCA.  5 years later I went to Scotland.  Then Ireland.  I actually remodeled/built golf holes before I actually played much.  Pretty much got that backwards, didn't I?       

[Jonathan Mallard]

I'll be 47 soon.


I started playing at 9. My grandfather took me to the 1982 Anheuser-Busch Championship. I watched an old guy he wanted to follow who was putting very funny, (sidesaddle) compared to the rest of the field. He made me get his autograph when he finished his round. I remember Mr. Snead telling some young pro "you didn't play the break!" from the scorer's tent.


My first top 100 course was a round at the Cascades course after I graduated from Virginia Tech.


I guess I started thinking about interesting golf holes in my late 20's. My first time on very highly regarded courses was playing Portrush and County Down when I was 37.

[Craig Disher]

I played the Mid Ocean Club course when I was 37. I had no insight into why someone would put a deep trough across a green or why the 17th green was so difficult to hold. I loved the course and for years I wondered why other courses I played didn't give me the thrill I had at MO.

[James Brown]

My dad took us on 17-mile drive when I was 14 (and not yet a golfer) and tried to show me Pebble Beach but I could not have been less interested in golf.  He was so dissapointed.


I eventually got into golf at 19 in college and became addicted immediately, but I really discovered great golf courses at age 32 in 2007 on my first trip to Ireland.  The first course we played was Lahinch.  What an eye opener.   Aficion ever since. 

[Chris Mavros]

I believe the first top 100 course I played was Kapalua when I was 31, but it would be another 2-3 years before I became interested in GCA.  I realized I enjoyed playing Jeffersonville (a Donald Ross) more than other courses, so when I saw who designed the course, I started doing research and starting realizing just how interesting design was.  I then read "Grounds for Golf" by Geoff Shackleford and slowly started to become enthralled. 


I was probably first blown away by the design of a course when I played Chambers Bay.  I had never seen or played anything like it, but it was such a vivid experience that it was then I started seeking out courses based on their design. 

[Garland Bayley]

I don't know what I was expecting exactly, but I'm surprised to see how many have said they were doodling golf holes when they were 11 or 12, before they had seen even one outstanding course.
...

If you love golf and have some imagination, then why wouldn't you doodle golf holes? ADHD in action. It's not like civics or language classes can hold a person's interest.

[mike_beene]

When I was 8 I asked for clubs( my dad only played a little). When I was 10 I wrote 20 or 30 well known courses for scorecards and layouts. Then I spent many years drawing courses on paper. I guess I was a flat land designer because I never thought about hills.Still have letters from Champions, Augusta, Olympic, etc. Played Pebble in late 20s. Drew golf courses sitting bored in depositions or hearings when I wasn't under the gun.

[Matthew Rose]

I began playing the game in earnest at age eight. My dad often took my older brother and I out to the local muni on Saturday and Sunday evenings and we'd play nine, usually finishing right at dusk. Then we sometimes got root beers and fried snacks at a little drive-in on the way home.

I actually became interested in the design of courses almost right away. We got Golf Digest every month and in those days, they would have full color course routing maps for all the majors, especially the US Open. This was around 1985, so I remember Oakland Hills and Royal St. Georges.

They also used to have something called the TV and Tournament Guide in the back of each issue that had rudimentary sketches of the last 4-5 holes of various PGA, LPGA and senior events happening that month.

We were so hooked on the game that we mowed greens in the vacant lot across the street and used Cool Whip containers for cups and then played with wiffle practice balls. I guess the idea of making our own little rudimentary golf holes planted that seed very early on.

Not long after, my grandmother got me the original World Atlas of Golf book for Christmas, and I adored it. I also began finding related books on library trips, like 100 Greatest And Then Some, among others. All of those things were great influences. My weekend evenings for much of childhood revolved around fictional full-color course routings on large pieces of posterboard.

I had a scorecard and yardage book collection and at one time it was rather large; I ended up throwing most of it out but I kept maybe the top 5-10 percent and still have it in a box somewhere. When my dad was at his career peak he had a chance to play some pretty prestigious places on business trips and so I built a pretty impressive and robust collection.

The first course of any real status I played myself was probably a family trip to Myrtle Beach in 8th grade; I played the Dunes Club (which seems to be a rather ubiquitous presence in this thread!).